News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Please Don't Show Us Another “Typical Family Earning $270... by jedberg on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:13PM (#15991346)
I've had this argument before, but basically, with $400K a year, you can afford two cars and a 2000 sq ft house with good schools, and maybe a nice vacation.

So yeah, you're not hurting, but you're not wealthy enough to retire and maintain that lifestyle.

Sure, you could "live frugally" and retire after a few years, but you'd literally have to live in a tent and then retire somewhere that isn't California. That might be ok for some, but for others it isn't.

I don't know how people making less than $200K a year live here comfortably. I mean I do know, because I know people like that. They live in a house that they inherited from their parents, they don't do anything out of the house, and they live near bad schools with high crime.

Re:Please Don't Show Us Another “Typical Family Earning $270... by vkou on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:38PM (#15991502)
Allright, I'll bite.

Let's do a simple budget for a $400K household. This puts you in the top 1.2% of incomes, nation-wide, by the way. Say, 40% of that goes towards income taxes (A bit of a high estimate, even, since taxes are progressive, there are deductions, your 401K isn't taxed, but whatever).

That leaves $240,000.

Two adults, so $40,000 goes to your 401K, no questions asked. It's the responsible thing to do. You're already saving as much as a median SF household takes home, but that's fine.

Two cars. You can buy a working car that will probably last you seven years for $10,000, or ten years for $20,000. Let's ammortize it at $2,000/year, with another $3,000/year in gas, insurance, oil changes, tires, etc.

That's $190,000 left over. Let's say you take two nice family vacations, for another $20,000 total. That's not living frugally, since you're spending more money on fun then what someone making your coffee makes in a year, but that's fine, you're definitely middle class.

Let's say you save another $50,000/year. Kids need braces, your car may get dented, you might want to order tex-mex every once in a while, you want to build that retirement fund.

You're left with $120,000/year in cash, to spend on food and housing.

If you can't figure out how to live on that, I hate to break it, but you're mismanaging your money. The median SF household lives on $77,000/year - that is BEFORE taxes. Half of them manage to raise at least one child on that. $400,000/year is completely out of touch with what normal middle-class people can spend. You don't need two Model Ss, Junior doesn't need to go to a top 5% elementary school, and you can probably make due without a two-week trip to Spain and another to Hawaii.

Re:Please Don't Show Us Another “Typical Family Earning $270... by jedberg on Friday December 22, 2017 @08:24PM (#15992342)
Let's look bottom up. A typical house in my neighborhood is about 1800 sq ft, 3/4 bedroom, so enough to have say 2 kids. It's about 2.2 million to buy said house. So that's about $8000/mo in mortgage, assuming you somehow managed to save $400K for a down payment. You'll also pay about $2000/mo in taxes. So that's $120K/yr just on housing costs.

But my neighborhood is the "poor" neighborhood. Most of the folks who live here make about $200K-$300K a year.

Over in the $400K neighborhood, their houses are about 2000-2500 sq ft, and cost about $3.5M. Keep in mind the median home in the US is about 2200 sq ft, so these houses are right in line with the US median.

At $3.5M, assuming they can save a 20% down payment, they'll be paying $14,000/mo in mortgage and $3,000/mo on property tax. So that's $204,000 a year just on housing to live in a median size home with good schools.

Using your math, after taxes and 401K, that leaves $38,000 a year for everything else. Or if you skip the 401K, it's $78,000 in post tax money.

So like I said, you aren't hurting, but you aren't crazy rich either.

Re:Please Don't Show Us Another “Typical Family Earning $270... by internetman55 on Friday December 22, 2017 @11:22PM (#15992912)
You can certainly afford to live in towns with fine schools for way less than 200k/yr in my home state (NJ).