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Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by raverbashing on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:34PM (#15963372)
Last I heard, Uber works just fine in France

> And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card.

That's on the Germans (especially Berliners), rest of Europe uses cards a lot more. And I'm glad the US finally took their head out of the sand and are using Chip Cards

But yeah the cookie notice is pretty much useless (and I think it's been implemented badly by websites as well). Note not all cookies need the notice (which is a fact overlooked by most sites)

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by juanmirocks on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:39PM (#15963422)
I live in Munich, Bavaria, and, to give an example, in most restaurants you will not be able to pay with a credit card. Having said that, you can pay once you reach a minimum amount with what they call an "EC-Karte", a sort of debit card.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by rconti on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:50PM (#15964130)
Yup, this was quite surprising to me having travelled a fair bit but not been to Germany in 10 years or so. "I'm supposed to pay my dinner bill at a fancy restaurant.. in.. cash?"
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by bandris on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:16PM (#15964358)
"Germany is the land of cash." -- one of my German friends likes to say.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by sithadmin on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @12:27AM (#15967244)
Germany doesn't have shit on Japan in this regard.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by cunningfatalist on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @03:40AM (#15968000)
EC card works 99% of the time.

As a side note, I also use my German EC card abroad. Fees are surprisingly low and it is accepted in more countries than you'd expect.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by CaptainZapp on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @02:16AM (#15967663)

  "I'm supposed to pay my dinner bill at a fancy restaurant.. in.. cash?" 
There are a lot of really fancy places in Japan, which will not accept credit cards.

Nor will they - unfortunately - accept reservations in English.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by code_potato on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @09:31AM (#15969773)
Seconded. Also a fella from Munich. In regular restaurants you have to pay at least 25 EUR to be able to pay with “EC Karte” which I find incredibly annoying. I don’t like carrying around any cash honestly. I have my cards and that’s it.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by raverbashing on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:56PM (#15963625)
Yes, debit cards are much more accepted than Credit Cards. I don't use Credit Cards outside of online though
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by robert_foss on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:50PM (#15964687)
EC-cards are widely accepted, but debit cards are accepted to the same extent as credit cards are.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by latexr on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @10:03AM (#15970092)
> Note not all cookies need the notice

Is there a reference for what kind of cookies do and don’t?

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by raverbashing on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @10:56AM (#15970620)
http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm

> Cookies clearly exempt from consent according to the EU advisory body on data protection- WP29pdf include:

> user‑input cookies (session-id) such as first‑party cookies to keep track of the user's input when filling online forms, shopping carts, etc., for the duration of a session or persistent cookies limited to a few hours in some cases authentication cookies, to identify the user once he has logged in, for the duration of a session

> user‑centric security cookies, used to detect authentication abuses, for a limited persistent duration multimedia content player cookies, used to store technical data to play back video or audio content, for the duration of a session

> load‑balancing cookies, for the duration of session user‑interface customisation cookies such as language or font preferences, for the duration of a session (or slightly longer)

> third‑party social plug‑in content‑sharing cookies, for logged‑in members of a social network.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by notyourwork on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @10:04PM (#15966680)
Can someone tell me as a consumer what benefit those chips provide?

It’s slower and security isn’t my problem because fraud is covered by the CC company. So I still don’t get what the benefit is or how our heads are above sand now?

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by ako on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @12:58AM (#15967385)
It creates a healthier society in long run if people cannot spend money they don't have. Some goes for the uber decision, I think it's healthier for the job market and society in general when this kind of exploitation of employees is not possible.

User experience of debit cards is just fine, I don't carry any cash, and typing a pin code is just as fast as singing your signature. And currently in the Netherlands debit cards also support contactless payment, where you can pay small amounts of money without proving a pin code. I don't use this though, as I don't feel the need to.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by kchoudhu on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @05:58AM (#15968613)
> It creates a healthier society in long run if people cannot spend money they don't have

Ok, now explain this:

https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm

Denmark, Holland and Norway are nobody's idea of unhealthy societies -- and households there have well over double the debt load of US households.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by farrisbris on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @07:24AM (#15968962)
This debt, at least in Norways case, is probably mostly due to a very large portion of people buying their own home. Its a lot more common here than in other countries and when growing up, at some point buying your own home is almost expected of you. It is also heavily incentivized by the government through tax policy. This is probably creating a housing bubble of sorts, so i guess we'll see how well that turns out at some later date, but i assume that is the reason Norway is where it is on that chart.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by kchoudhu on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @07:31AM (#15968993)
I doubt Norwegian homeownership culture is anything as militant or debt-fueled as America's. Remember how the US nearly tanked itself with mortgage backed securities a few years ago?
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by sobani on Thursday December 21, 2017 @10:23AM (#15979349)
As @farrisbris mentioned, this is mortgage based debt (in the Netherlands).

All debt is tracked, including the 'free' phone you get with your subscription. You can't go over a limit based on your income.

Also a large difference with for example the US is that in the Netherlands you don't need a down payment when buying a home. And until recently you could include the transfer tax, realtor, etc in the mortgage. All which make it easier to buy a home and thereby driving up the debt of a household.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by touristtam on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @06:59AM (#15968850)
Those countries have nowhere near the same consumerism culture as the United States.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by kchoudhu on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @07:10AM (#15968907)
With respect, that's a horrible generalization, and does nothing to refute my point that households Europe are in much more debt (as a share of disposable income) than US households.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by ajdlinux on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @11:59PM (#15967154)
The fraud is ultimately paid for by the userbase (cardholders and merchants) as a whole through paying fees. (Of course, whether a reduction in fraud cost results in a decrease in fee burden or an increase in issuer profits...)
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by CaptainZapp on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @02:19AM (#15967680)

  It’s slower 
In my experience it's definitely not. Especially when you pay contact less (something any chip containing credit card provides for the last few years) it's basically instantly.

  So I still don’t get what the benefit is or how our heads are above sand now? 
You get the benefit that your card is accepted throughout the world. I don't think that you can use any chipless card in Europe, nowadays.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by crdb on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:32PM (#15964509)
The service available in France as UberX is what is known as UberBlack in the rest of the world - a black car and a professional driver (also applies to Pool). Uber in France is effectively a taxi company with an app (which is not a trivial improvement, but that's a separate discussion). This is strange because France is, philosophically, a "communist" country and sharing economy innovation is usually welcome and happily embraced; UberX and UberPool were extremely popular with millions of riders (I believe 7? 10% of the country) before they were made illegal.

How this came about is a textbook case study in government-industrial nepotism, including the family [1] controlling 60% of the taxi companies (edited) literally hiring the head of the French FBI to transfer a couple of months before retirement in the transport ministry, pass anti-Uber legislation, and then retire to a cushy job as the chairman of I think the second or third largest taxi company (owned by the same family). This was exposed in a long article in the Nouvel Obs, a real piece of journalism, which was taken offline about a week after publication (edit - seems to be back! [2]) and before I could take a copy (only the URLs I sent friends remain as testimony of its existence). [1] also claims that the Rousselet family blocked a direct rail link between CDG and central Paris (my Uber on that route last week cost 99 EUR), and has kept the number of taxi licenses "near 1930s levels". edit - [2] claims Paris has 1/5th as many taxis as London or New York, and that no new licenses were given between 1990 and 2002, during which CDG passengers increased almost 50%.

There is an embryonic version of Pool, in the form of Blablacar, an app that arbitrages the very high cost (for French citizen) of SNCF and Air France domestic intercity travel. You post your approximate trip, and riders can ask you to pick them up for a portion of the way. I've travelled 5 hours for 10 EUR this way, and used it frequently between Geneva and Annecy (about 45 minutes, no train link, infrequent buses). Since this app is effectively useless for last minute short trips within a city, it does not compete with taxis, which may explain why it is still around.

[1] Note that the father of the current chairman was the executor of the will of President Francois Mitterrand - https://www.challenges.fr/entreprise/pourquoi-il-est-impossi...

[2] https://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/economie/20150212.OBS2398/de... - on the former security head: "fin 2007, le gouvernement Fillon demande un rapport sur les taxis au préfet Pierre Chassigneux [...] Coïncidence ? Ancien directeur des Renseignements généraux puis directeur de cabinet de François Mitterrand, l’homme est une vieille connaissance d’André Rousselet via le corps préfectoral. Son travail, publié en avril 2008, est si conservateur que la presse le qualifie de "contre-rapport Attali", qui vient, lui, de prôner une véritable libéralisation du métier. Mieux : ce même Pierre Chassigneux devient ensuite… président des Taxis bleus, poste qu’il occupe encore à ce jour !"

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:58PM (#15964763)
>This is strange because France is, philosophically, a "communist" country and sharing economy innovation is usually welcome and happily embraced; //

When I (UK) think of France in this context I think they're strongly in to workers rights and that probably Uber aren't (based on the kerfuffle in London)? That makes it completely unsurprising to me that Uber wouldn't be doing well in France??

Uber is super-capitalism, it's not communistic, it's lowering workers (proles) wages; and using capitalist investment in order to bottom out the market and bankrupt the other players so that the market can be captured by a single player. Could you perhaps describe why you think this sort of market manipulation, particularly the reduction in wages and reduction in worker rights (through machinations of "they're not employees") makes this communist in any way shape or form??

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by crdb on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:35PM (#15965077)
I'm not talking about politically, but about philosophy or spirit. Compared to the Anglosphere megacities, there is a certain comradeship amongst the French (which you find in other countries, like Japan), a sense of shared fate and community spirit, the idea that this goes before profit and efficiency.

The use of the word communism was deliberately ambiguous and a bit of a pun given the leaning of a sizeable portion of the population in the 20th century. "Commune" means a small town in French, and "commun" can mean "that belongs to all" or "shared".

The French job market is ultra-regulated which makes it relatively rigid with many people left out (and great conditions for the connected). I remember someone interviewing for selling ice-creams - there were 22 finalists! And most graduates will do year-long, low paid internships outside the regulated, cushy full time job system, which like post-docs in US academia can repeat ad infinitum if the economy is bad.

As everywhere else, UberX/Pool allows the marginalised to get an easy job that's a step up from pizza delivery, whilst drastically expanding the market for rides (and I've seen this play in a lot of countries). This is particularly helpful for the numerous people juggling many jobs, and parents (especially single parents) who appreciate the flexibility.

The market was already captured by a single player in France, the worst possible way - in a similar fashion as healthcare in the US. Other markets that have been completely captured by capitalist foreign mega corporations include web search, browsers, social networking, computers, fast food, fashion, real estate supplies, the auto industry (Renault and Peugeot are French only in name at this point)... I guess at least the Rousselet were French?

Perhaps it is time to see things in grey instead of black and white, to avoid labels, to judge companies and actions by their net welfare effect instead of saying "he's not from my team so he's bad" or "she's from my team so she's good" (I'm thinking of you, Democrats in the last election). Almost forgot - reduction in wages? The taxi companies employed many drivers on survival wages (particularly those with difficult immigration situation) and pocketed the difference. Uber's transparency is a net gain for the worker (and the state, which does not get tax-evaded).

UberPop was popular because it allowed people to car pool easily without talking about money, and decongested city centers particularly at rush hour. Enabling widespread, safe car sharing seems to have been perceived as a good thing given the high number of users. I never heard a bad comment about Uber from normal French people (drivers or riders), always from taxi drivers or the news.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by dnautics on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @03:22AM (#15967920)
Just FYI usually in English we would say communitarian where a French person might be tempted to translate as communistic or communist. Communist in common English is pretty much restricted to the political philosophy.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by raverbashing on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:51PM (#15964705)
> The service available in France as UberX is what is known as UberBlack in the rest of the world - a black car and a professional driver

While they do follow taxi regs, I don't see how they aren't "UberX", UberBlack is just called UberBerline here: https://www.uber.com/en-IE/cities/paris/

> blocked a direct rail link between CDG and central Paris (my Uber on that route last week cost 99 EUR)

Well, true, there isn't a direct link, but there is a train link, also link to other cities. Last year an Uber from the city center to CDG had a fixed price (if I estimate the fare today it gives me 45Eur for X or 70Eur for UberBerline)

I haven't used Blablacar though

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by Agingcoder on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:34PM (#15965067)
I'm not sure I understand. - both uberx and uber pool are legal in France - uber black elsewhere is a luxury service, which French uberx is not - maybe we don't have the same definition of professional driver, but you need them to be professionals for insurance and tax reasons. - there has been a direct rail link from CDG to central Paris since 1981. It's called RER B.
Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by crdb on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:45PM (#15965148)
It's confusing because the terms are different internationally.

The RER B is not a direct train link - it's equivalent to taking the Piccadilly Line from Heathrow, you will take a long time through many stations and share with commuters. Think instead Hong Kong's express train or the Narita Express in Tokyo: a fast, clean, premium service that takes you from airport to city centre core locations in a couple of stops (the Heathrow Express is actually pretty bad for this as it arrives somewhere far from most places of interest which is why they're building CrossRail).

UberX/Pool in most of the world (although this is changing - e.g. license now required in Singapore) means the everyday salaryman who happens to commute by car and decides to pick people up on the way to bump up his end of month. Many people end up doing this full time but usually in between jobs. In some countries it's lucrative enough to become a career.

How nice an X/Pool car is depends on the local market. In Singapore it used to be old, entry level Toyotas but as the rental company business improved it became small SUVs (like the Honda Vezel). In Sydney you get anything from a Subaru WRX to an E-class.

Black in most of the world means "professional driver, new-ish sedan used for professional transport" and that depends again on the price locally. In Ho Chi Minh City it's a local market 8 seater van (like a bare bones Honda Odyssey with leather seats). In Singapore you can get the odd Mercedes E-class. In Hong Kong you get many Teslas, with the rest Audi A6 or larger.

In France, X/Pool now use professional drivers, and the cars are sedans: Renault Laguna, Volvo S60, etc. In that sense, the service is equivalent to Black in the rest of the world.

I agree about insurance and tax, but it really depends how you implement it. In Singapore, the license is very cheap and requires a few hours of training (for safety and to know your obligations). This is a stark contrast to 300k+ EUR/USD medallions.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by programLyrique on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @06:04PM (#15965289)
There are actually direct RER B trains between the airport and gare du Nord in central Paris and other RER B trains that stops at all the stations between the airport and gare du Nord...

There is now a project to create another direct line between the airport and Gare de l'Est (and shutting down the direct trains of line B at the same time), the CDG express (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDG_Express and more info in French https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDG_Express). The project was indeed stopped in 2011 butis now alive again, and very likely to be made. Se also http://www.cdgexpress.com

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by crdb on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @06:36PM (#15965553)
Excellent news!

The last time I tried to take the RER (early 2010s), I was in a train full of graffiti, with drunks (or drug users?) passed out across the seats, and few escalators/lifts for my 20kg suitcase. So after this I thought it was less painful to pay for a taxi, the experience put me off trying the RER again.

This round, the problem was a strike which surge priced the fare into 8 minutes ETA and 2x the usual.

It's funny that CDG is actually a TGV station - you can probably reach other cities faster (and more comfortably) than Paris as a result.

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by kerneis on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @05:11AM (#15968402)
> [1] also claims that the Rousselet family blocked a direct rail link between CDG and central Paris (my Uber on that route last week cost 99 EUR)

Well a regular "taxi parisien" between CDG and Paris is 50 € or 55 €: https://www.g7.fr/tarifs-taxis-paris Uber is not always cheaper…

Re:WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by ... by on_and_off on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:06PM (#15964851)
What ?

SNCF is often pretty cheap.

Also Uber X seems pretty similar in France and in the US to me. It is not all big black cars.