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Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:26PM (#15854191)
Welcome to developing in 2016-201X, were you spend 60% of your time configuring tooling, 35% developing test and 5% developing your app.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by hannofcart on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @03:19PM (#15855406)
Sounds good to me. If I could spend 60 hours on developing the initial tooling, and if I could spend just 5 hours writing minimal code to get things working as I want, and spend the rest of the 35 hours on testing and making everything watertight, I'd call it a job well done.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by Udik on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:27PM (#15858509)
It sounds awful, both for you and for the employer/ customer who pays you for only 5% of your time being actually spent in implementing features.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by r00fus on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @01:38AM (#15859062)
Features that break other features (or introduce vulnerabilities) because they haven't been through a basic testing are anti-features.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by Udik on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @03:10AM (#15859442)
Sure. I don't write any tests (luckily I don't work on a business-critical system), and 10% of my time is dedicated to fixing features that were broken accidentally. And now? 90% of my time is still dedicated to developing new features.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @03:56PM (#15864909)
Don't bother feeding the trolls, r00fus it's a lego developer, if their framework doesn't support they will rebuilt everything from the scratch or mark it was wont-fix, for devs like him is that we can have nice things.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by nip on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:36PM (#15854317)
Or stick to something that works for you and keep using the same tool over and over again.

No one is forcing you to use the latest bundler / tool / programming language. Let others experiment. You’ll be happy to reap the benefits of their work when something mature comes out of it.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by nathan_long on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:38PM (#15855028)
> No one is forcing you to use the latest bundler / tool / programming language.

Tell me that when you get turned down in a job interview because you don't know <JS framework of the year>.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by tropshop on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @03:00PM (#15855247)
Try working on your positioning so that you are not hitched to the <JS framework of the year>. You will forever be competing with the low end of the market if you cannot market yourself.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by FLUX-YOU on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @05:08PM (#15856510)
Your advice basically tells them to get out of JS development because businesses continually hitch themselves to <JS framework of the year>.

This stuff comes up in interviews. Trying to avoid answering direct questions about a framework and answering with "Well I can learn it really quickly because I'm a good vanilla JS Dev" doesn't fly all the time. If you can't answer direct questions about a framework, they will pass on you if they get someone who can answer those questions.

It has nothing to do with marketing yourself.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by tropshop on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:11PM (#15858408)
What you described is a hiring problem. Marketing is knowing who your buyer is and finding creative ways to get their attention.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @03:45PM (#15855714)
Found the MBA/project-lead guy. The moment you start working on management, that's the moment you stopped being a "developer".
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by vlunkr on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @04:49PM (#15856345)
I don't think that's the only interpretation. You can also work on moving into different parts of development. This problem exists everywhere, but is currently the most extreme in front-end web-app dev. Move the back end, ops, etc..
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by jsgo on Monday December 11, 2017 @08:49AM (#15896986)
Isn't that to your benefit though?

There are tons of companies that are going to do certain things you aren't going to be a fan of. Isn't it better to find out they're not that into mature platforms and prefer the latest trend during the interview and not on the job?

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by dmitriid on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @03:00PM (#15855246)
> Or stick to something that works for you and keep using the same tool over and over again.

(in JS ecosystem)

1. It's really hard to find something that works

2. It's really hard to figure out all the dependencies, and configs, and plugins, and conventions, and ..., and ... for something that works

3. Once you have it figured out, each and every moving part, including the tool itself, will get updated with deprecations and breaking changes.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by weego on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:24PM (#15854862)
I agree in a lot of environments, but web/js build tools seem to have a high frequency of fragmenting and becoming abandoned before any real long-term maturity is established.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by deoxxa on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @03:47PM (#15855761)
It sure looks that way if you follow the news, but my webpack config has barely changed for two years now and I'm still getting work done.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by doublerebel on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @03:04AM (#15859407)
My gulp configs have barely changed in 4 years. But we have to convince people to work together and stop jumping ship rather than ignoring the process. I don't think Node has this figured out yet unfortunately. Too much hubris.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:15PM (#15854772)
> No one is forcing you to use the latest bundler / tool / programming language

Except everyone is using them and you get quickly outdated, specially if you are looking for a job with heavy experience on python, php and asp.net web development. The market already shifted to "3 Years worth of experience on Parcel".

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by at-fates-hands on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:13PM (#15854749)
THIS.

I used to love writing code and building stuff from scratch. Nowadays it's exactly what you said. I spend more time configuring stuff and finding tools that work well together than actually writing the underlying code that makes the app or the website work.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by mlsarecmg on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @07:47AM (#15860661)
I don't agree at all. Building things from scratch has never been easier. The difference is, today you can build highly complex stuff "from scratch" as easy as simple things. Components are ready to use, javascript and node can steer robots, machines, drive mobile and desktop applications, etc. All of this is set up like nothing.

In the same time it costs you to boot up notepad.exe and create a HTML wireframe, create-react-app/electron/etc has already set up an application that is modular, knows dependencies and resources, is debuggable, can hot reload, etc. The time you would spend to get this manually ... it wouldn't even be fair to compare.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @10:08AM (#15861542)
> In the same time it costs you to boot up notepad.exe and create a HTML wireframe, create-react-app/electron/etc has already set up an application that is modular, knows dependencies and resources, is debuggable, can hot reload, etc. The time you would spend to get this manually ... it wouldn't even be fair to compare.

Most of the times you don't need any of those things, you don't need modularization, you don't need a dependency manager, you don't need a debuggable version (because you are working on plain versions without minifies or module bundlers that compress your code), you don't need hot-reload (because you aren't using a transpiler/compiler-to-js), you don't need the hot-and-untested framework, sometimes you don't even need a source control.

The big difference between that and going from scratch is that you choose what you want based on your needs not because everyone or a framework tells you "this is the right path", current state of web development increases "lego developers" to rise and shine like if they were expert.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by mlsarecmg on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @11:25AM (#15862330)
If you don't need it, what forces you to use any of it. Has the browser stopped accepting .js and .html files? It hasn't. Will we ever go back to where that was all that was needed? I sure hope that will never happen, because there was nothing glorious or great about that time. It's a Freudian slip when someone thinks back and goes "oh how easy it was." It just wasn't. It used to be the most limited, restricted, crippled, tough and volatile environment possible. Nothing meant manual labour as much as the old web. From chasing dependencies by hand, fixing issues across browsers, nothing could be re-used, it was plain horrible.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by cortesoft on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @03:14PM (#15855361)
How about you don't do that, then? What is stopping you from developing things like you used to? Those older tools still work.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @03:49PM (#15855784)
Go try to find a job that doesn't require any of the new tooling experience or look at the other extreme... looks for those asking 15-years proven experience of Cobol.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by djstein on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:42PM (#15854388)
35% developing tests? What great institution do you work for?
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by JepZ on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @06:33PM (#15857206)
They probably code using Barliman[1] ;-) </joke>

[1] https://github.com/webyrd/Barliman

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by je42 on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:53PM (#15854527)
90% developer tests here
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by IanCal on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:45PM (#15854417)
Depends if they're talking about adding tests or battling tests/test frameworks to just get something out.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by iamcasen on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @02:15PM (#15863982)
Oh man, this is my life. Spurious integration tests that are critical, but very complex and often times have timeouts in our test runner depending on how many builds are going in there.

I might take 1 day on the feature, and then 3 more days just getting it past the testing gauntlet

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:17PM (#15854789)
Slack /s
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by awalton on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:34PM (#15854298)
Cute that you think this started in 2016...
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by SadWebDeveloper on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:23PM (#15854857)
To be fair, i originally wanted to put 2010 but there are so many butthurt nodejs fans that will get easily offended.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by dotandimet on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @02:36AM (#15859277)
Take it down another decade. Or two. There are versions of Old/Super/Hyper in libraries and frameworks for Java, Perl, Python... Once you get the Internet, the hype cycle keeps speeding up
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by doublerebel on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @02:59AM (#15859376)
Hey dude, it looks like you've been shadowbanned for years and I don't immediately see why. Just vouched for this one. Thanks for your comments hopefully it all works out this holiday.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by borellvi on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:47PM (#15854448)
Have you ever tried a tool like https://github.com/facebookincubator/create-react-app ? It makes your comment totally irrelevant.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by Boxxed on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:51PM (#15854491)
Unfortunately the whole world isn't developing a react app. And the fact that create-react-app even exists is definitely proving the point!
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by borellvi on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:56PM (#15854564)
Is not about React, it is about tools that makes our life easier. If you want you can stick to ES5, no frameworks, no tools but good luck scaling your app to work with a big teams.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by notheguyouthink on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:12PM (#15854732)
Yea, as a user of CRNA (create react native app) with a moderately simple app, dependency hell is something we're already in. We don't see a choice, for reasons, but CNRA is definitely not somehow above these problems.

Node/JS in general has a pretty terrible track record for me with version hell.

Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by tropshop on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:21PM (#15854829)
Strong technical leadership and defining clear code boundaries is the secret sauce to scaling successfully. The shiniest tooling will not save your team.
Re:Parcel – A fast, zero configuration web application bundler by lhorie on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:04PM (#15854655)
IMHO, unless your company is also working on a tool like Bazel or Buck, you don't really have a team scalability problem.