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Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by rayiner on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @04:34AM (#15850782)
Anti-intellectual is an odd criticism to level at the Midwest. The Midwest has some of the highest performing (by NAEP math scores) education systems in the country (Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas). Some of the strongest growing states, like California, have among the worst.

The article doesn’t support your statement either. It’s basically a comparison of funding at Midwestern public schools versus expensive coastal private schools. E.g. they compare the endowments of midwestern publics to Harvard, etc., while leaving out U Chicago and Northwestern. Your last point is also wrong. Out of the handful of 5 states that spent more on universities in 2017 than 2008, 3 are in the Midwest. Most states cut funding, with no noticible pattern of the Midwest cutting more than the costs. MN cut about the same as MA and CT, IA and MO cut about the same as NJ.

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by wcunning on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @09:33AM (#15851907)
Three of the top ten richest public universities in the United states, by endowment, are in the Midwest, potentially 5 if you want to count Pennsylvania as part of the Midwest (4 if you count Pittsburgh, 5 if you count Pittsburgh and Penn State)[0]. These are definitionally the university systems that don't require much state funding, and I'm perfectly happy having my state not spend a ridiculous amount on a university worth more than 1/6 of the entire state budget for the year. To reinforce the comment I'm responding to: Minnesota is #9 on that list and that's one of the states that cut funding. Clearly they're doing ok still.

To the anti-intellectual point, I would argue that while rural voters in Michigan might be somewhat anti-intellectual, they clearly get drowned out by the pro-intellectuals in the urban areas. Take a look at a county-by-county breakdown of voting sometime -- the entire state is red except for 4 or 5 counties, but the state often elects democrats to statewide office.

[0]http://www.businessinsider.com/richest-public-universities-i...

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by maxerickson on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @10:36AM (#15852321)
In Michigan, the majority of students don't benefit from the huge endowment that UM has, the schools don't have financial ties.

(Michigan State alone has larger enrollment than UMich and then there are quite a few more public universities and then also community colleges)

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by mylons on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @10:26AM (#15852251)
Pennsylvania isn't considered the Midwest. It ends at Ohio. Eastern Pennsylvania is closer to NYC than it is to Chicago.
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by thousandautumns on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:23PM (#15854151)
And Western Pennsylvania is closer to Chicago than to NYC. Eastern Penn cities like Philly are definitely considered part of the East Coast, culturally, but western Penn such as Pittsburgh is definitely part of the Midwest.
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by mylons on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:41PM (#15854380)
I made a typo. Western Pennsylvania is closer to NYC than Chicago. I did a google maps from the northwestern corner where I-80 crosses into Pennsylvania, to Chicago and NYC.
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by wcunning on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:08AM (#15852589)
Well, as a Michigander, I think of the Midwest as the Rust Belt, which I realize may be disagreeable to some, like another commenter in this thread. That said, culturally speaking, Pittsburgh has far more in common with Cleveland than with Philadelphia. Pennsylvania is a very divided state, so I would count part of it as the East Coast and part as the Midwest, geographically if nothing else. But that very disagreement is why I called that part out separately.
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by murph-almighty on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:42AM (#15852896)
Start driving down 76W and you'll see quite the opposite. Yes, eastern PA is urban, but after you get far enough west the only thing on the radio is country and gospel.

I also wouldn't claim Pittsburgh is anti-intellectual considering the startup scene and the universities in the area. The suburbs around Pittsburgh are a bit of a different story.

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by bluthru on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @12:50AM (#15858861)
As an entire state no, but Pittsburgh and the western half of the state definitely feels Midwestern.
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by rayiner on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:08PM (#15854693)
Measuring intellectualism by voting pattern is :-/
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by Robotbeat on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:01AM (#15852519)
The problem is when talking about anti-intellectualism, people say "Midwest" instead of "Rust Belt."

I grew up in Minnesota, so to me "Midwest" is Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, maybe Michigan and Illinois.

But the anti-intellectualism streak is really in the Rust Belt, like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, West Virginia, and sure, parts of Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, and Michigan.

The apparent contradiction of anti-intellectualism and high educational attainment is due to broad brush strokes in our definition of "Midwest." Minnesota especially doesn't fit into that mold.

Moral of the story: you guys need to get off the coasts once in a while.

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by rpedela on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:37AM (#15852855)
You are the first person I have heard define Midwest that way. Midwest includes Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Missouri too [1]. Although many people view the Northwest Territory [2] after the revolutionary war as the "Midwest": Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Culturally, the second definition makes more sense to me as someone who has lived in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and spent significant time in several of the other states in the first definition.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territory

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by jartelt on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:46AM (#15852944)
The University of Wisconsin at Madison has been largely targeted by Governor Scott Walker. He has made large cuts to the budget, had tried to remove professor tenure, and has more or less filled the Board of Regents with his political friends. When I was still in grad school (~2 years ago), people were worried about a brain drain from the school. Why would a great professor want to stay at UWisc if the Governor is taking away tenure and threatening to do performance reviews? Of course, Walker is trying to get reelected now so he is proposing tuition cuts for students to try to save face.

In Illinois, the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign has been hit hard by funding shortfalls as well. This has been going on for years now since the state government cannot get its act together. The university is still great, but you have to wonder at what point the cuts will take their toll. A rising star professor may not want to stay at an institution that always needs to worry about funding and whether or not they need to furlough employees. At some point, the best researchers and teachers leave and go elsewhere.

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by lotsofpulp on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @08:05AM (#15851457)
The anti-intellectual image is due to the voters of those states. They consistently vote against personal freedoms due to their religiousness, vote against spending money for fellow citizen’s healthcare and education and infrastructure, but are for spending on military, subsidizing stadiums for sports, and tax cuts for corporations. All while claiming they’re fiscally conservative, but actually adding to the deficit.

They are anti net neutrality, anti efforts to combat climate change, and anti marijuana, but pro spending on police and pro asset forfeiture. Also, their legislators have had problems with teaching evolution and/or have wanted to introduce religion into public schools.

It's really an urban vs rural/suburban divide though, but enough to paint basically the states that vote Republican as backwards, because almost every time there a political issue coming up, they seem to be on the opposite side of where most young professionals, especially in science related fields are.

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by sctb on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:08AM (#15852588)
Could we please not take this discussion right into the same old tired partisan politics?
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by jumpman500 on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @09:23AM (#15851852)
You're just describing political positions you disagree with. Nothing you said is disproportionately midwestern. I'd need to see polls to believe that they hold these positions. Midwest has been pretty purple in many of the past elections.

How has the midwest show themselves to be anti net neutrality? How have they shown themselves to be anti marijuana? Illinois and Michigan are in talks of legalizing it, and already have very light penalties on having it in small amounts. Subsidizing stadiums for sport? St Louis just lost the Rams to LA for refusing to build a stadium.

I think you need to stop painting anyone that has voted Republican in the past decade as a political enemy. Most of those issues you stated don't even seem that partisan.

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by tdb7893 on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @09:20AM (#15851826)
I've lived on the Midwest pretty much my whole life and Illinois and Minnesota are generally Democrat states with large city populations. The other state I've lived in, Iowa, historically has been pretty tolerant (but that is changing recently) and was the fourth state to legalize gay marriage. I know people from a lot of small towns where they were taught evolution and were not anti-intellectual at all. The Midwest covers an absolutely huge area and while some people follow this stereotype probably the majority of people in the Midwest don't.
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by 1787 on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @08:27AM (#15851544)
You've shown that many midwesterners are anti-progressive, but that is not the same thing as anti-intellectual. Furthermore, the optics of where they stand relative to young professionals in the sciences are just that - optics that don't necessarily reflect anything. Consider student movements in the past that haven't gone anywhere or were really misguided in hindsight (there are enough).
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by lotsofpulp on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @08:41AM (#15851618)
My response is in the context of anti intellectualism being an odd criticism for why tech startups might not consider Midwest. There are other factors of course, but my reasons, in my experience, are big reasons why employees tech startups would want don't want the Midwest due to anti intellectualism.
Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by H1Supreme on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @09:15AM (#15851785)
I'd argue that it's both anti-progressive and anti-intellectual. I live in a stereotypical flyover area, and the sentiment is spot on. People vote against things that would clearly help them, because that's what everyone at church is doing.

This isn't an overstatement either. I know these people. Their opinions are what someone told them to think. Almost completely void of logic. Fox news said some shit, so it must be true! This sounds exaggerated. It isn't.

Some guy was running for office and totally did the "Jesus, show me the way" campaign. Crosses on his election signs, the whole nine yards. He was neck in neck with the incumbent (who was well liked, I might add) just based on this crap. Until he got arrested for nearly beating a guy to death. Not very Jesus of him, is it?

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by Helmet on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @09:36AM (#15851919)
I live in a stereotypical flyover area, and the sentiment is spot on.

As have I, and the sentiment is a silly caricature.

People vote against things that would clearly help them, because that's what everyone at church is doing.

Can you list some of these things?

As far as I can tell, the progressive legislative agenda has done nil to help anyone in the flyover country. Obamacare is a disaster, factories have been shuttered because they can't compete in a globalized economy (neither the left or right are at fault here), and progressive cultural values do not align with the moral and ethical stances of these people.

Not to mention, they are continually mocked, condescended too, and made fun of by coastal elites.

This isn't an overstatement either. I know these people.

I know them too, and you've painted a caricature.

Their opinions are what someone told them to think. Almost completely void of logic. Fox news said some shit, so it must be true! This sounds exaggerated. It isn't.

Oh, like almost every mainstream liberal that I know? CNN, ABC or MSNBC told them some shit, so it must be true.

Some guy was running for office and totally did the "Jesus, show me the way" campaign. Crosses on his election signs, the whole nine yards. He was neck in neck with the incumbent (who was well liked, I might add) just based on this crap. Until he got arrested for nearly beating a guy to death. Not very Jesus of him, is it?

So some crazy guy ran for office and lost. What's your point?

Re:From Bezos to Walton, Big Investors Back Fund for ‘Flyove... by losvedir on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @08:57AM (#15851697)
> problems with teaching evolution

This is literally the only thing in your whole list that is "anti-intellectual". Everything else just stems from a different set of values than your own.