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Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by leggomylibro on Friday December 01, 2017 @10:16PM (#15829925)
Yeah, I feel you. But I also feel for people who have worked their whole lives to build towards a comfortable retirement, put their lives' worth of sweat and tears into that, and then had it pulled out from under them.

There's a hyperbole to express on both sides, but I can understand why people who are worth $1-5 million and are past their 50s might feel threatened by this sort of development.

They aren't in a particularly marginalized position, but they are probably frightened about the rapid change and possibly out hundreds of thousands of dollars plus time they don't have.

I agree, build those homes and reduce the power of small groups to put up large barriers, but I also understand where the residents are coming from to some degree.

Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by morgante on Friday December 01, 2017 @11:35PM (#15830179)
> There's a hyperbole to express on both sides, but I can understand why people who are worth $1-5 million and are past their 50s might feel threatened by this sort of development.

They can sell their house and live a life of luxury virtually anywhere else in the world.

I have a hard time sympathizing with such people. They're not out anything—they're amongst the most privileged people in the country.

Sure, I understand where they're coming from. That doesn't mean they have my sympathy. I understand why billionaires advocate for lowering their own taxes—that doesn't mean I give them an ounce of sympathy.

[dead]
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by AlanSE on Saturday December 02, 2017 @11:21AM (#15832551)
Plenty of people move for economic reasons in the transition to retirement. You're exactly right to put this kind of economic trend in personal terms - we should seek to do this. Nonetheless, I feel like a reference to "your mum" is more intended to shut down the conversation than anything else. I speak for plenty of people when I say that my own parents moved cities as they retired.

For many of those who move for retirement, the place they most love doesn't perfectly align when the best place to work and raise children. That makes it an easy decision. My parents moved to a place with more family, lower cost of living, and easier access to commercial areas. The fact that it is hard to find a job in this place no longer played a major role.

Sure, there are people living in Berkley and NYC who LOVE those places and want to die there. Still... that's not necessarily representative or even common. Many people move further away from urban centers even when starting a family.

Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by gbacon on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:27PM (#15833533)
"Hey Mom, you have been complaining for years how expensive it is to live there. Why don't you move to a smaller town close to us where a fixed income will stretch a lot further, crime will be lower, and it'll be easier for you to get out. The kids would love to get to spend more time with you. We can help you get to your doctor appointments. It'd just be better all around."

Unconscionable!

Further, making financial decisions based on a plan with facts and figures rather than mere emotion is what responsible people do.

Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by morgante on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:10AM (#15830693)
My mom has moved plenty of times in her life. It's not like moving is a crazy abnormality—tons of people move when they retire.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by gambiting on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:19PM (#15834858)
Of course - but if you worked hard all your life to live in a place that YOU like, I think it would be quite hard to accept someone else telling you to move,no?
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by ajross on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:25PM (#15833518)
Sorry, the subject at hand is whether the grandparent commenter's mum should be forced to accept a legal subdivision in her neighborhood which will likely make parking a little harder and just perhaps could reduce the growth rate of her real estate holdings via dilution effects.

And the answer is "yes". Come on.

Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by dsacco on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:44PM (#15833969)
> Give your mum a call (you’re clearly young, so she’s likely alive)

This was unnecessary. Don't make attempts to map a person's opinion to their age. That's a first step towards implicitly invalidating their opinion because of their age, which isn't a substantive rebuttal.

Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by TimTheTinker on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:05PM (#15834774)
Ad hominem argument, yes.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by corprew on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:40PM (#15832982)
"you’re clearly young, so she’s likely alive" <-- why the youth-based insult here when you could have made your point easily without it.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by karmicthreat on Sunday December 03, 2017 @07:47PM (#15840651)
This is something I never really understood. Because you have money (and maybe only marginally more money) some people feel your fear/suffering etc are trivial. I don't think money really makes it any less. While you might have better access to therapy or distraction peoples hurt is real. For example I thought it was kind of shitty when people were crucifying Notch after he expressed personal/emotional problems he was having.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by pault on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:11PM (#15833137)
My parents are divorced and both moved to separate cities away from the coast when they retired (Mom went to Illinois, Dad's in the Cascade Mountains). The move hasn't been terribly good or bad for either of them (although my dad is probably happier in hill country).
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by rtpg on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:07AM (#15831403)
if you have $5 million, you could pay yourself $50k a year for 100 years.

There are taxes, but people who have 100 times the median household income in the bank might be able to figure something out.

It makes sense that they're fighting for their money. And people deserve basic empathy, no matter what the situation. There could be solutions out there that make the most people happy.

The cynical view is that this is their greed, and they are taking money from people with less means with their demands.

Less cynically... we can try to find solutions to assure them their house value won't plummet, but encouraging a view where more prices at least stabilize won't put _that_ much strain on them, compared to the help it would give to other families with less means.

Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by bartedinburgh on Saturday December 02, 2017 @10:03AM (#15832086)
If you have $5 million reasonably invested, you could pay yourself approximately $200k per year until you die (the average long-term expected return from the stock market is > 4% above inflation) and likely leave some cash to your kids.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by wbl on Saturday December 02, 2017 @10:42AM (#15832302)
It's not pulled out. They can sell to developers. The value of the land below their feet will increase with broad upzoning. It's just they won't have their neighbors grow zucchinis.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by danmaz74 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:39AM (#15831328)
I'm sorry, but I really can't shed a tear for the economic worries of people who are worth $1-5 million, when even in first World countries there are hundreds of millions of people who are scraping by with negative worths...
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by IkmoIkmo on Sunday December 03, 2017 @05:39AM (#15836990)
Sure, but these people aren't seeing their wealth erased. If anything, there'll be a discount of say 10-30%, probably realised over a period of 20 years, and there's a good chance the only effect it will have is that prices stop rising faster than income, but will rather stay stable. i.e., making it more affordable, without them losing any money.

If that's the price that has to be paid, I think there's no moral argument to be made on this discussion, what remains is a legal-political challenge.

Finally, I do believe this is all part of investing into the housing market. If you want a risk-free investment, choose government bonds. If you want to play the housing game, this is part of the story. You can't expect to invest a few million into an overpriced industry with a scarcity-controversy, and expect to reap risk-free rewards. Everyone who buys a house in these areas knows that your money pouring in and your legal defences are inadvertently screwing with housing affordability. If you're okay with that and want to make a risky investment, so be it. But then don't treat it like some kind of safe retirement plan you worked your entire life towards, it's not.

Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by andrewjl on Sunday December 03, 2017 @02:54AM (#15836530)
Nobody is forcing them to build this housing on their property. They own it, and it's theirs to do with as they like. They DON'T own the neighborhood and when others want to move onto another property they have no ownership interest in and that happens to be on their block, they don't have a property right to prevent that.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by azernik on Saturday December 02, 2017 @09:32AM (#15831961)
Perhaps a solution would be to allow people to sell a percentage of the equity in their homes - let them pull some money out of their investment, while still not having to move.
Re:The Great American Single-Family Home Problem by exhilaration on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:46PM (#15833981)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_mortgage

That's usually marketed to older people.