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Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by int_19h on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @03:11AM (#15795301)
For the past, oh, 10 years or so, it feels like every time I try a new release of one of the prominent Linux DEs, I keep going back to Xfce after a short while, because it "just works", can be customized exactly how I want it to be, and doesn't try to break my flow with every major release, because someone in UX has a new Grand Unifying Theory of What Users Really Want (Even if They Don't Know It).
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by lultimouomo on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @04:51AM (#15795794)
I agree with you SO MUCH. I've been using Gnome lately on my XPS13 because HiDPI support in Xfce is not quite there yet (while in honesty is pretty well supported in Gnome), and I hate it with a passion. It seems like they decided to reinvent every single well established UX paradigm there was, and somehow managed to make every one of them worse. Random example: they managed to break Alt+Tab; you now need to think whether the other window you want was created by the same executable that created the one in the foreground right now or not. Plus if you use Ctrl+Shift+T in chromium you will never be able to Alt+Tab to it again. Other random example: pushing the computer power button does not pop up a shutdown dialog because "shutting down is disruptive"!
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by vetinari on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @05:15AM (#15795899)
You can change what alt-tab does, either the power-user way using dconf-editor, or a normal user way using an extension. In this case, install Alternate Tab extension, which will make the alt-tab work exactly as you want.

You can also configure, what will happen when the power button is pressed (I think it puts the computer to sleep by default). In this case, you don't have to install anything, it is in the control center.

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by lultimouomo on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @06:13AM (#15796154)
You can indeed change the Alt-Tab behaviour with an extension, but not what the power button does. It used to be possible, but they decided it was to disruptive and removed the option, which is the standard Gnome policy. I found an extension to show the shutdown dialog via Alt+PowerButton though.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by vetinari on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @03:35PM (#15801231)
Not sure what kind of Gnome you are using, but in Gnome 3.26 as shipped with Fedora 27, in the Settings, Power options, you have three options what can happen, when you press the power button: "sleep" (the default), "shutdown" and "do nothing".

When you select the second option, "shutdown", and then press the power button, it will throw a dialog at you, that the machine will shutdown in 60 seconds (and will display countdown), together with "cancel", "reboot" and "shutdown" buttons.

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by majewsky on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @11:37AM (#15798769)
Not a GNOME user, but maybe that's because the power button is now handled by logind? Have a look at `man logind.conf`.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by mrweasel on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @04:06AM (#15795565)
I'm actually somewhat concerned that in the move to Wayland those of us who just want the window manager, and not a desktop environment will be forgotten. To me it seems silly to use a lot of processing power on a desktop environment that want be seen or used most of the time anyway.

Evilwm still seems like the window manager that got thing mostly right to me. It draws the windows and there's a keyboard short cut for opening an Xterm (and for moving and resizing the windows), you don't really need much more than that. Sadly it seem that the focus for the simplest window managers is tiling, which I also to like.

Hopefully a non-tiling, dead simple window manager for Wayland will appear in the future.

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by munchor on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @04:19AM (#15795621)
You should see if any of these fits your needs:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland#Window_managers...

I too have been longing for an Openbox port for Wayland but have sticked to Sway in the meanwhile.

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by mxuribe on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @09:18AM (#15797470)
I've never heard of EvilWM until your comment. I'd be curious to test it out, but wondered if there are any more screenshots of it. (This one is just not enough to judge: http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/images/cap1.jpg )
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by enriquto on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @04:32AM (#15795698)
evilwm is great! the neat interface creates quite a stir in my lab
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by wiz21c on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @03:44AM (#15795461)
I use OpenBox on Debian since 5 years. But it's not because Gnome or KDE is broken, it's just because I don't need all of the stuff a regular desktop provides. I think your comment implies regular desktops are broken but I don't think so. They're not perfect but not to the point of being unusable.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by Nursie on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @04:24AM (#15795650)
I think a lot of the problem with Gnome 3, Unity and Windows 8 was that they decided to revolutionise the way people worked, by pushing them towards different paradigms.

These paradigms may or may not have been well thought out and useful, I'm not here to make that judgement, however what they did (particularly with Gnome 3 and windows 8) was push you to use the new way, either with no concessions at all to other ways of working, or vague promises that they would come later. This presents users with a learning curve and that's offputting when really you just want to get stuff done in pretty much the same way you did yesterday.

For me the crucial point is that Windows (pre 8 and 10), MacOS and Linux DEs like Xfce, MATE and various others don't try to push you, and do things in a fairly 'standard' way. A menu bar may have moved, some graphics look better than others, there might be a clock in a different place. But they don't force you to full screen, try to hide all the things you've done before, make choices for you on which applications to use for what, etc etc, behaviour is pretty predictable. And if it's not, you can make a few tweaks without much fuss.

So they aren't broken, but they do present a barrier to entry, and often a lack of flexibility (I'm specifically not talking about KDE as I haven't used it on over a decade).

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by int_19h on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @06:44AM (#15796317)
They're not broken to the point of being unusable, but they're a pain to use.

And it's not just a DE vs WM thing. I'm fine with Gnome 2, for example - it also "just works" in that sense. And Xfce is really a DE these days, as well (I'd say that feature-wise, it's on par with earlier Gnome 2 releases now).

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by setzer22 on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @03:24AM (#15795358)
Unless you are frequently switching monitor setups and would like a panel for each monitor. After coming from i3 I expected that to be a simple feature but I guess Xfce devs don't.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by pizza234 on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @08:20AM (#15796938)
I have been using XFCE, but I'm in the process of switching.

I think they project is going to die in the future, not necessarily in an abandonment sense, but it will severely lag behind, due to lack of resources (I also think the developers behind it are not really good).

Thunar (the file manager) had, for around an year, a bug where around 20% of the time, moving/deleting a file would cause a crash - this was in fact marked as critical. There have been some clumsy attempts to fix it, until the fix came out after a long time.

Thunar is also, mysteriously, for several reasons, an enemy of keyboard users (try to use it this way, and you'll understand).

It's not realistic to switch file manager, as there is a disconnection in the desktop usage workflows, and unfortunately, the file manager is a core part of a DE.

Of course, not everybody has such requirements from a file manager/DE, so it may be a good choice for many, although it's not really true that all the other Ubuntu distros are so disruptive, in particular, at least a comparable one isn't (and I suspect there are more than one).

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by qualitytime on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @03:35AM (#15795419)
Yes, I've used xubuntu for the past years, not just because everything "just works" at the right minimal level for me but also for it's lightness and performance.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by Nursie on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @03:23AM (#15795353)
Yup.

As soon as the whole kerfuffle hit with gnome 2 being forcibly deprecated, I tried Xfce, found it lightweight and configurable, and stuck with it.

Never regretted it, as a desktop it works and it keeps out of my way. Perfect.

Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by zzzcpan on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @09:02AM (#15797310)
It's weird that after so many years Linux DEs are still in this immature state. And we again find ourselves looking for something more permanent that "just works". I was hoping for unity to be it, but apparently the bar was too high for canonical, so now I'm looking at either lxde or xfce too.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by herbst on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @06:21AM (#15796178)
I do the same. But with Gnome.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by lottin on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @05:00AM (#15795824)
Xfce is by far my preferred DE but I always worry that the project looks seriously understaffed and has many rough edges that never seem to be ironed out.
Re:Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome by xab9 on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @08:14AM (#15796902)
Same here with fluxbox, but xfce has always been a safe place for me.