News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by rgrieselhuber on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:36PM (#15776860)
After years of being a Chrome user, I've been trying to work myself off of Google's infrastructure as much as possible. Firefox is great, but I was very disappointed to learn that they are partnering with political activists to block sites that they deem to be "fake news."

Edit:

makeee below posted a good source describing what Mozilla is currently doing, which appears to be limited to "researching" the problem of fake news.

I would love to support Firefox so I hope they come up with something more innovative than blocking (which they do not appear to be doing now - I stand corrected) or labeling (which has its own problems).

As I mentioned below, browsers, search engines, or social networks should not be, IMO, attempting to block or de-rank websites based on political activism, regardless of the source.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by mintplant on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:17PM (#15777088)
I'm aware of a research project to see if reliable identification of "fake news" websites is possible, but there's no "blocking" coming to Firefox. That would violate point 5 of the Mozilla Manifesto.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by userbinator on Saturday November 25, 2017 @03:04PM (#15777698)
That would violate point 5 of the Mozilla Manifesto.

They can interpret that however they want. For example, you can always "shape the Internet and [your] own experiences on it", including removing any blocking, adding things they remove, etc... just get the source code for Firefox and make all the changes you want.

It's all a bunch of vague marketing doublespeak anyway, with around as much power over what Mozilla does as the US constitution has on the US government.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by kevinh on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:40PM (#15776880)
Oh, that's great news. Blocking fake news sources would get me to try to switch some relatives back over to Firefox.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by rgrieselhuber on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:07PM (#15777025)
I simply don't want the technology I use to be the arbiter of information. Teaching people to discern quality sources for themselves is far better IMO.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by makeee on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:13PM (#15777070)
That seems to be exactly what Mozilla is doing no? Research and investing in tools that help people learn to navigate information online and judge for them self. Haven’t found anything that suggests they plan on blocking websites.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by rgrieselhuber on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:09PM (#15777379)
Thanks, the link you posted clarifies that what they are doing at this point is "researching" ways to combat fake news. In practice, the solutions I could imagine them coming up with would be either outright blocking / de-ranking, or preemptively labeling certain sites / articles as fake news. I hope to be wrong on both of those counts.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by Manishearth on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:02PM (#15777339)
Where does it say that Mozilla is going to do this?

As it stands you're spreading FUD.

[dead]
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by kevinh on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:01PM (#15776996)
Fake news sites (real fake news, not how Trump uses it) are malware for the mind. These are things that are 100% fictional and made up to deceive readers for clicks.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by catshirt on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:02PM (#15777001)
> "real fake news"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

or (to play coy): you're suggesting we block fiction from the internet...?

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by pjc50 on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:00PM (#15777320)
Even in America, there has always been certain material that was rendered unavilable by legal action. Usually the big hammer was reserved for child porn, but there have been other cases.

Remember also that almost everyone selects their email provider precisely because they don't want to see everything - they want someone to take care of the spam for them. Popup blocking, ad blocking, and now it seems some sort of "clickbait"/"fake news"/"russian troll" blocking is going to be popular.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by kevinh on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:10PM (#15777054)
Fake news is a distinct category of story that is easily quantified. It is a real problem that the United States faces and if we don't attempt to combat it, discourse will suffer. Since you're a fan of Wikipedia articles, try reading this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news_websites_in_the_Unit...
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by catshirt on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:21PM (#15777111)
ok. read the whole article. and i understood you right off the bat just fine. you want to block fiction from the internet. specifically, political fiction. and to be really generous, more specifically, political fiction with a certain intent.

now. who gets to arbitrate what is "political"? who gets to arbitrate what is "fiction"? who gets to arbitrate someone else's "intent"?

Clinton? Trump? Bezos? Huffington? pick your poison. and i'll find half a country that disagrees with you.

signed,

a very confused liberal

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by hanklazard on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:48PM (#15777242)
You’re conflating “fake news” and “political fiction.” The first is an attempt to mislead people about events that have happened, the latter is a story about the way events could happen.

I’m not interested in arguing about whether objectivity is possible in news, just saying this distinction is important.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by catshirt on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:53PM (#15777272)
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/politics/donald-trump-koi-pond...

https://gizmodo.com/that-viral-photo-of-president-trump-dump...

an honest question, do your content police block CNN for this one article? if yes, i respect your consistency but i think CNN deserves some forgiveness. if no, why not? what is the threshold? any threshold is just A SECOND slippery slope.

> The first is an attempt to mislead people about events that have happened

i see. and who gets to decide what has happened? CNN or FOX? Google or Mozilla?

i think... show me a group capable of political objectivity, invulnerable to influence, and i can start to come around.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by hanklazard on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:55PM (#15777652)
> an honest question, do your content police block CNN for this one article?

Which content police did I propose? I simply pointed out that you're conflating political fiction (eg George Orwell's 1984) with fake news (eg this story from "American News dot com": https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-google-crack...).

> http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/politics/donald-trump-koi-pond...

Was this video you posted from CNN fake? Was someone fabricating that or did it really happen? It's a very dumb story (and one of the reasons I don't bother with CNN), but I don't get the sense that it was fabricated.

Yes, news sources have political slants, I doubt you'll find anyone to argue with you on that one. The clickbaitization of news continues to ruin journalism, and I'd really like to reverse the trend. However, that's a different issue than the problem I pointed out with your argument.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by astura on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:40PM (#15777565)
You're either extremely misinformed or are being intentionally disingenuous.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became...

Are you also against spam filters, virus scanners, security certificate warnings, mixed content warnings, and known malware domain click-throughs?

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by cmurf on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:29PM (#15777499)
We need to insist only on excellent public education. And then in aggregate, people can figure out what is fake. The problem is we're combining mediocre education, with propaganda specifically designed to work on the weak minded. And so it succeeds.

A vastly bigger problem than fake news, is how we've all sat on our collective asses as Democratic and Republican parties have sabotaged voting districts with gerrymandering and the Electoral College by giving those seats to party loyalists, not better people.

This is not at all the system we have. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed68.asp

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by kevinh on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:33PM (#15777158)
I don't understand why you're treating this as a partisan issue. Fake news affects every political affiliation, and it isn't limited to political issues. I don't want incorrect information that agrees with my point of view any more than incorrect information that agrees with it.

As for how they'd decide what websites to block or put a warning in front of, that seems fairly straightforward. Have a committee that represents different demographics, and require a unanimous vote to take action against a site.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by catshirt on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:35PM (#15777166)
dude. i get it. you are only further articulating everything i have already accused you of.

you want a company or government to decide what content gets blocked. that is what's partisan.

remember this conversation when the guy you don't like gets control of that company or government. cheers mate. i mean well.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by orf on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:12PM (#15777062)
No, he is clearly not.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by QAPereo on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:57PM (#15776972)
Maybe it would be more helpful to stop trying to categorize people based on single posts?
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by catshirt on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:58PM (#15776983)
come on. read between the lines. i'm saying that blocking websites is fascist behavior, not noble work. don't abuse your family's trust by imposing political censorship on them.
[dead]
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by sctb on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:17PM (#15777421)
We've asked you many times not to post unsubstantive, inflammatory political comments, so we've banned the account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by makeee on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:45PM (#15776913)
Source? Can’t find anything online that indicates they are partnering with political activists to block websites.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by SyneRyder on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:09PM (#15777378)
The confusion seems to be an AFP story conflating two separate programs. The AFP story mentions Mozilla at the same time as an organization called Full Fact, that has a product that does automated live fact checking. It was initially designed for use during televised political debates, where it could show "correct" and "incorrect" warning popups on screen in real time according to what was said:

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-mozilla-fact-checker-fake-news...

(Apologies for the awful link source, I can't find a primary AFP link. Several other sites that have published the same identical story.)

Full Fact does appear to be a real organization, they claim to already work with the BBC, Guardian & other media partners, as well as Google. Some of the controversy seems to be over their grant funding from Omidyar Network and an organization founded by George Soros. (Whether that's a reason for concern, I have no idea.)

https://fullfact.org/blog/2017/jun/automated-fact-checking-f...

https://fullfact.org/blog/2017/jun/awarded-500000-omidyar-ne...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/08/fake-news...

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by numerlo on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:59PM (#15776987)
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by makeee on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:03PM (#15777003)
Thanks, although link doesn’t support anything in parent commenter’s claim.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by satysin on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:53PM (#15776955)
I assume OP is talking about this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42065644

Edit: Misread, thought OP was talking about Google not Mozilla.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by catshirt on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:54PM (#15776962)
their use of "but" would suggest OP is definitely talking about Mozilla
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by satysin on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:56PM (#15776970)
Ah yes, apologies, I have edited my post to clarify my mistake.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by jccalhoun on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:47PM (#15777239)
definite [citation needed] on that one
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by Manishearth on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:02PM (#15777335)
I don't think Mozilla has ever said we're blocking fake news in Firefox.

Mozilla is doing research into this, and may eventually release some tooling for this (an addon or something). But we don't even help block ads in the browser, I doubt this will be built in.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by userbinator on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:56PM (#15777657)
As I mentioned below, browsers, search engines, or social networks should not be, IMO, attempting to block or de-rank websites based on political activism, regardless of the source.

Indeed, whatever happened to "don't take sides". Couldn't an organisation stay completely neutral and only focus its efforts on the technology of accessing websites?

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by k__ on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:46PM (#15776923)
Same here, but I guess getting out of gmail and calendar will be tricky.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by ocodia on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:49PM (#15776936)
Plenty of great email, contacts and calendar services out there, you just need to pay for them. I went with FastMail and it’s been absolutely painless.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by PuffinBlue on Saturday November 25, 2017 @03:14PM (#15777744)
The only difficulty with other services and contact syncing is 1) getting them to sync across both Android and iPhone bi-directionally and 2) syncing custom fields.

1 can largely be solved with effort (just about) but last I checked Fastmail doesnt use the same vcard formats as Google/Apple and doesnt support custom fields in contacts. That might have changed recently and I'd be very interested to look again if it has.

I even went as far as a fairly engaged back and forth with Fastmail support (reference to which is in my comment history somewhere here) to work out how they could get bi-directional syncing of custom fields to both platforms working. But they had no plans to implement it.

I appreciate mine is perhaps a niche use case but I've got a lot of contacts with multiple addresses and numbers in multiple countries and short of saving maybe 5 or 6 replica contact entries per individual (which is a mess over) the workable solution was to stay within a walled garden.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by k__ on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:03PM (#15777004)
I fear the actual migration, not the alternatives
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by smichel17 on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:08PM (#15777368)
I suggest email migration in 3 steps:

1. Set up an email client and get into the habit of checking your mail from it instead of the web interface (at least, on your normal devices). 2. Create and start using your new email account, which you can add as a second email address in your client of choice, alongside your gmail. Share the new address with friends and family; people who you want to recieve mail from. 3. Gradually switch over logins and the rare newsletter you care about to the new address.

Eventually, you'll find that you no longer get any mail you care about on gmail. That's when you download an archive (which you think you will look at but actually never will) and delete your account. As a side benefit, you'll likely get to cut down the amount of junk mail you get :)

I've never used Google calendar, but I presume there's a way to export as ical? That should make it easy to migrate to any provider you like.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by k__ on Saturday November 25, 2017 @07:40PM (#15778819)
Problem with the calendar is, that it is linked with those of the people I care about
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by krrrh on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:35PM (#15777165)
Fastmail does the email migration in the cloud. It’s relatively quick and painless, and you can trial things for a period by setting up your gmail account as an alias (send from the fastmail web interface through gmail’s smtp servers etc) so you can always switch back if you don’t like it. When satisfied, set up an auto-responder and forwarding to let people know to stop emailing your @gmail account.

Fastmail has a decent calendar, but you may prefer to use iCloud or something else for that. Calendar clients on desktops and phones tend to be pretty good at supporting multiple providers so that is a lot easier to migrate.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by tonyztan on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:50PM (#15776944)
Any recommendations for a Google Drive replacement?
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by PrimHelios on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:02PM (#15777002)
It isn't for everyone, but I host my own NextCloud instance on a personal server. Works fine after a bit of tweaking, but it can be a pain to set up.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by cmurf on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:42PM (#15777571)
I wonder what it would cost to run a fallback instance on Google or Amazon cloud, like if my ISP/cable modem craps out for whatever reason.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by gregknicholson on Saturday November 25, 2017 @02:23PM (#15777465)
I use [https://syncthing.net/](Syncthing) because it's serverless, works on various Linuxes and Android, pretty easy to set up, and I trust it.

I trust it because I can get it from 3rd-party repos — Debian, Fedora, F-Droid — and I trust that they wouldn't all allow malicious software that claims all communication is encrypted.

Syncthing's forum uses Discourse. The whole thing just smells of competence.

Of course, it may not suit you.

Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by krrrh on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:43PM (#15777211)
Dropbox/boxcryptor + MS Office. It’s of course necessary to use google drive for collaborative editing from time to time because it is so ubiquitous, but excel is still miles ahead of google sheets in terms of usability. Pages and Numbers are also pretty good for light use on the Mac and have free web versions for collaboration. The Dropbox desktop client is so much better than Drive in terms of CPU usage and straightforward sharing.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by satysin on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:54PM (#15776963)
I have been using Microsoft OneDrive without issue for the past couple of months. The new Files On Demand feature works well. Of course this is only really helpful to Windows users which is a shame.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by knodi on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:08PM (#15777033)
That's great new unless your party is the one thats generating most of the fake news, A.K.A GOP/Trump.
Re:Ciao, Chrome: Firefox Quantum Is the Browser Built for 2017 by pault on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:45PM (#15777223)
I personally don't think partisan propaganda is the big problem. The problem is the content farms that will write completely fabricated news articles designed to outrage/reinforce certain political views for eyeballs. The former is a problem to but it would be more difficult to pass off as factual in an environment without the latter. Also, there is plenty of the latter targeting left wing voters. I see it all the time on some of my less discerning friends' facebook feeds.