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Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by lovich on Saturday November 18, 2017 @09:22PM (#15731879)
I'm not sure how much of it is tall poppy syndrome when it comes to employees vs bosses. Its might be uncomfortable to talk about, but every dollar the boss keeps _is_ a dollar that the employees don't get and the boss is the one deciding how much both sides get.

Tall poppy syndrome would be more applicable if it was peers being upset at the success of one of their own, not between subordinates and leaders

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by anothertraveler on Saturday November 18, 2017 @09:41PM (#15731957)
Indeed...

> every dollar the boss keeps _is_ a dollar that the employees don't get and the boss is the one deciding how much both sides get.

I've thought a lot about this over the past few years. There's definitely a difference between being an owner and an employee. An owner lives with a whole different level of stress and risk. An employee has a choice to work for an owner, or go work somewhere else, or become an owner by starting a company.

I'm not sure where the balance of power between business owner and employee is determined...it's fairly complex.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by throwawayjava on Saturday November 18, 2017 @09:54PM (#15732003)
Because owners are never allowed to become employees?
Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by anothertraveler on Saturday November 18, 2017 @10:13PM (#15732052)
Good point. Owners can become employees, but there are much more benefits to being an owner that employees never really have access to, so unless the owner doesnt have the skill or capital, I don't see why an owner would want to be an employee. Sometimes employees can't even fathom making 1MM+ on a business deal because employees think in terms of their salaries.

Owners become employees when they accept too much outside investment. They become employees of investors...and investors buy ownership.

I think the balance of power is primarily affected by two things: 1) Barrier of entry into starting a business, such as laws that inhibit/regulate small businesses, or independent workers (owners) 2) Regulation that gives bigger businesses an inherent advantage over smaller businesses, such as limited liability, indemnification, bnakruptcy, mandated group health insurance plans, etc.

Sure, an owner can make 1MM per year and only pay the employee 100K.

But I think the question we really need to understand is, what's stopping the employee from quitting and starting his own company? I don't know the answer.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by eutectic on Sunday November 19, 2017 @06:59AM (#15733532)
You are living in a bubble if you think that the balance of power between employers and employees is mostly determined by how easy it is to start a business.
Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by Trundle on Saturday November 18, 2017 @09:42PM (#15731962)
Are you an indentured servant? The boss certainly doesn't get to decide how much both sides get. Those that hand out high salaries aren't doing it as some form of charity. It'd be absurd and stupidly inefficient if they were, most of the world lives on US$10 or less.
Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by anothertraveler on Saturday November 18, 2017 @10:21PM (#15732067)
In my opinion, it is easy to feel like an indentured servant as an employee, especially if that employee lives paycheck to paycheck or is servicing a lot of debt (mortgage, car payment, health insurance premium and bills) that I see a lot in the American economy.

There is also a lot of pro-management literature that defines a work culture where employees should be loyal to their company, boss, etc., give two weeks notice when quitting, among other things that psychologically disenfranchise employees.

In reality though, at least right now in the tech industry, if you don't like your salary, job or work environment, it isn't hard to re-tool and find a new job...

In blue-collar/unionized industries, it might be totally different. I don't totally understand the work cultures of other industries, especially lower paying ones.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by nostrademons on Saturday November 18, 2017 @10:47PM (#15732143)
They don't, but the mechanism by which employees get more is to leave or threaten to leave. They are more likely to exercise this option if they feel like the boss isn't serious about the business and is living large on their efforts. This isn't in the boss's or the company's interests.
Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by lotsofpulp on Saturday November 18, 2017 @09:37PM (#15731941)
The boss is not deciding how much both sides get, supply and demand determines at which price point someone is willing to work for someone.
Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by sliverstorm on Saturday November 18, 2017 @10:26PM (#15732089)
Aren't bonuses a little separated from the standard market forces surrounding salaries? You don't know what your bonus will be when you agree to work for a company, and how the bonus is funded is truly in part left to discretion of your superiors, and also partly tied to company performance and not the going market wage.

Obviously you might leave after a few years of really unfair bonuses. But truly, they seem a little disconnected from regular market forces.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by edanm on Sunday November 19, 2017 @04:28AM (#15733054)
Of course they're not disconnected - they're simply priced in.

Everyone knows that if you go work for e.g. Google, you're getting a certain base salary, plus a bonus package (plus options/RSUs, plus free food, plus a lot of things). People consciously subconsciously price these in as much as they can. Of course if bonuses are variable it's harder to price them, but the same can be said of stock grants in companies. And no one can afford to ignore those - they can in practice make up a huge part of your pay package.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by humanrebar on Sunday November 19, 2017 @08:00AM (#15733716)
> ...they're simply priced in...

Well, you're correct. If the bonus is unacceptable, the employee can just quit. But a year of work (or more if it's event based instead of annual) is a big opportunity cost to find out that info.

In other words, employees never take an unexpectedly huge bonus to the chagrin of the employer. So there is a power imbalance there.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by lotsofpulp on Sunday November 19, 2017 @08:20AM (#15733784)
The employee is (consciously or unconsciously) pricing in the bonus when they are hired. Whether or not they correctly calculate the bonus risk is not the onus of the employer. Meaning if you can’t afford or will be happy without the bonus, then you probably shouldn’t be accepting the job assuming the bonus will come through.
Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by humanrebar on Sunday November 19, 2017 @09:56AM (#15734124)
> Whether or not they correctly calculate the bonus risk is not the onus of the employer.

It at least partially is. The employer needs to meet reasonable expectations and any commitments they made.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by cyberferret on Saturday November 18, 2017 @09:42PM (#15731964)
You are correct. I was using the term in relation to all of us here at HN critiquing the people mentioned in the article. Assuming none of us are employed by those companies, we are essentially peers in the industry.

The boss/employee relationship is an interesting one as well. If the boss is a self made entrepreneur that built his/her company from scratch and lived by the skin of their pants for years, then I believe it should be their decision as to how much of every dollar coming into the company goes into their pockets.

I would also assume that being successful from those beginnings would indicate that they are shrewd business people, and that they can figure out a ratio of boss/employee allotment that would be fair and also be beneficial for future company growth and reinvestment.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by randomdata on Sunday November 19, 2017 @04:47AM (#15733109)
> and the boss is the one deciding how much both sides get.

Why would the boss give anything to the employees then? I think you’ll find that the employees decide how much they want.

Re:Hotshot Tech Founders Face a Dilemma: Lie Low or Live Large by golergka on Sunday November 19, 2017 @05:27AM (#15733249)
> and the boss is the one deciding how much both sides get

Employee signed the contract out of his own free will? Then no, the boss is not the only one who's deciding that.