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Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by WalterBright on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:00PM (#15731140)
The mistake with this bill is it assumes that tech workers excluded from the US will just disappear. They won't. They'll set up shop in other countries, and those companies will compete with US companies. It will also encourage larger US companies to set up dev offices in foreign countries.

One way or another, those workers will be competing with US workers regardless.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by justonepost on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:05PM (#15731165)
Meh, 60K engineers won't be much competition. if anything, this is good for the US as it will make room to allow the US to drain more 90K+ engineers from other countries.

This rule was long in coming. Low wage body shops wasn't doing anyone any good.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by whatyoucantsay on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:09PM (#15731187)
Do you actually believe that H-1B slots will no longer be filled at 90k/year?

I would wager a great deal that not only will all slots still be allocated but that demand will continue to far outstrip supply. The number of workers excluded from the US will be identical as to that under the previous rules but those granted H-1B visas will be paid closer to what their American colleagues are.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by tomrod on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:18PM (#15731481)
I would need more information. How many people apply for H-1B slots that can't be filled at 60k per year?
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by pm90 on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:25AM (#15732414)
See: http://www.immi-usa.com/h1b-lottery-2016-results-chances-pro...

Almost 199k applications for 90k slots.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by confuseddesi on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:04PM (#15731158)
That is the case even today; American engineers compete with foreign engineers housed across the world. The difference here is that there is some benefit in having workers come domestically - communication and collaboration among other things improve. American employers will hopefully be driven to pay better wages to Americans already here instead of importing cheaper labor.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by WalterBright on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:18PM (#15731234)
Or more likely those companies will now be unable to compete with foreign companies employing those people. No country has ever produced domestic prosperity by restricting trade.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by adventured on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:38PM (#15731319)
> No country has ever produced domestic prosperity by restricting trade.

Correction, all countries that have ever existed restrict trade, and all of the most prosperous nations today heavily control their trade across nearly every industrial segment. The sole variance is the level of restriction or tariff that they utilize depending on their context or skill at trade & production.

That includes present day Germany (a big restrictor of trade, heavily tilting their export/import ratio to a $300 billion trade surplus), France, Britain, Japan. Even while the US market is more free than most when it comes to trade, it also heavily controls & restricts trade using tariffs and global trade bodies.

That particularly includes China, which has dramatically restricted trade into their nation. They've done so on purpose in order to buy time to build up their domestic giants, which has worked extremely well for them. They've been allowed to have their cake and eat it too for decades.

By itself, China proves that you can get extraordinarily prosperous utilizing trade restriction policies under the right circumstances.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by conanbatt on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:46PM (#15731588)
In spite of those restrictions, not thanks to them.

All the richest countries we have today have been among the list of richest since before and after great changes in their protectionist policies.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by whiddershins on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:29PM (#15731282)
“No country has ever produced domestic prosperity by restricting trade.”

This sentence feels dogmatic to me. I would like to see a bunch of citations, and even then it would be hard to prove the negative.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by WalterBright on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:15PM (#15731466)
I'd like to see a case where it worked.

In any case(!), the economic principle at work here is the law of comparative advantage.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/comparativeadvantage.as...

To claim that protectionism improves prosperity is to claim that the law of comparative advantage is incorrect.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by conanbatt on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:45PM (#15731583)
I shed a tear in Ricardian.

Of all the purported liberal ideas the U.S. thinks it embraces, restriction of immigration is one of the most baffling.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by Daishiman on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:00PM (#15731414)
This is an extremely uninformed opinion. First world countries restrict trade all the time. It's a mantra disseminated by first-world economists to justify breaking down trade barriers in third-world countries and set up shop more easily.

It has been seen time and time again. It would be great is this meme were put to rest.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by WalterBright on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:12PM (#15731457)
> First world countries restrict trade all the time.

That's true. That doesn't mean it produces prosperity. Consider that those same countries impose sanctions on other countries to punish them.

How is a sanction different from protectionism?

Consider also a more comprehensive implementation of protectionism - Smoot-Hawley, which is credited as being a major cause of the Great Depression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Ac...

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by Daishiman on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:43PM (#15734911)
Those are a bare few data points that don't contemplate the history of technological and economic development. Historically, countries which want to develop their local industries protect them heavily when they're in a phase where they cannot compete against external forces until such point at which they can actually deal with the international market.

This has been one of the ways in which China has improved technological innovation at an incredibly fast pace.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by maxxxxx on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:57PM (#15731404)
You can easily compete with a foreign company that hires people that are not able to get a 90k offer in the US.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by zzzeek on Saturday November 18, 2017 @08:11PM (#15731688)
That assumes an equal cost of living in all countries, which is not the case.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by vkou on Saturday November 18, 2017 @08:08PM (#15731671)
Every single propsperous country in the world has become prosperous through a mix of trade, protectionism, and enormous state subsidies.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by Amezarak on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:30PM (#15731283)
Protectionism built the prosperity of the British empire yesterday.

Protectionism is building prosperity in China today.

I'm not saying protectionism is always right, I'm saying do what gets results. Sometimes that's free trade. Sometimes that's protectionism.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by WalterBright on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:20PM (#15731486)
Did it? Or did the advantages of the British empire being a global free trade zone outweigh the deleterious effects of protectionism?

Did you know that New York City was founded to get out from under protectionism, and became the economic capital of the world?

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by nonamechicken on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:53PM (#15731393)
Yes. And I hope India will increase its protectionism as well. I don't see why Flipkart has to compete with Amazon. Why do we need Whirlpool or GM when there are Indian companies that will help create jobs in India?
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by virtuabhi on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:33PM (#15731540)
You make a good point. Why should we have free trade without free movement of labor?
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by thewarrior on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:09PM (#15731185)
I can see the other replies but you are entirely right . I work for one of the big 4 and the overseas office where I am is growing rapidly . I hear one of our peers is doing the same .

Of course they aren't making too much of a noise about it as they're smart.

These policies are already backfiring.

If that means companies discover that you don't have to be in California to do tech that would be a good thing . Bring on the foolishness I say .

I would like to add that I'm not talking about this policy in particular but the growing sentiment against even skilled immigration.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by tedmiston on Saturday November 18, 2017 @08:47PM (#15731789)
Why is being in California relevant to a minimum that applies across the whole country?
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by walshemj on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:40PM (#15731329)
But to play devils advocate development is always better with co located teams
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by home_boi on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:08PM (#15731180)
I don't think the purpose of the bill was to address that concern. The US will award a constant number of H1Bs no matter what the salary requirements are.

I think that the main benefit is to have higher quality H1Bs. There are many talented temp stays who lose the lottery to less talented people and have to leave the US. Salary can be used as a heuristic for talent.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by eanzenberg on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:16PM (#15731227)
Big companies already have the option of opening offices anywhere in the world. Wonder why they don't already take advantage of all this "cheap and good labor" out there, as you put it?
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by seanmcdirmid on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:23PM (#15731260)
They do actually, for example Microsoft has substantial R&D operations in India and China among others. But they also use H1Bs. Most big companies do both, but unlike the body shops, aren’t going to be affected by this very much.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by zzzeek on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:46PM (#15731587)
> Wonder why they don't already take advantage of all this "cheap and good labor" out there, as you put it?

what makes you think they aren't? I work for Red Hat. It is an amazing company to work for. But our main technology center is in the Czech Republic, where the cost of living is 40% lower than the US. Those are absolutely great engineers to work with, and despite some of the alarming comments here they are absolutely as high quality as any US engineer if not more so. But the fact remains that their salaries are spent overseas and not here in the US.

This is why the point of free trade is to raise the standard of living in those nations so that not only does life get better for everyone around the world, but also other nations no longer act as a cheap drain for jobs that pay artificially higher wages domestically. It's a huge idea that has worked in many ways, raising US GDP vastly beyond what it could be under heavy protectionism (think: the whole world as your customer base as well as your production base vs. just the US). But it also failed spectacularly in that it isolated low skilled workers in the US who became even more resentful of foreigners than they already were, who then went ahead and elected a facist government. Whoops.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by eanzenberg on Saturday November 18, 2017 @08:48PM (#15731794)
Its a matter of scale, not anecdotal stories. Saying “my company does it and is successful” and “big companies don’t do it at scale” are equally right and factual. If there was a suppky of cheap talent outside the US the big companies are already utilizing it. There are benificial network effects to moving some of them to the US.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by zzzeek on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:05AM (#15732527)
I was responding to a poster who claimed it was not happening at all. Also I think it's a great idea to build tech centers all over the world, to raise the standard of living in many places and to further the practice of working with a mix of disparately located and remote workers.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by TheSoftwareGuy on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:05PM (#15731162)
You could say the same thing about any law aimed at increasing wages/workers rights. Minimum wage encourages companies to move/setup overseas. Same with workplace safety laws.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by WalterBright on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:07PM (#15731177)
Indeed, you can. It's good to be aware of what these laws are going to cost you.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by conanbatt on Saturday November 18, 2017 @08:11PM (#15731691)
Its true that you cant forbid it, but if its provokes any change in structure for the companies it will still have an effect on all parties.

Id take it for granted that eliminating H1B visas would increase wages for software engineers: obviously at a cost for everyone else. Anything else in the middle to that will have a proportionate effect.

Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by maxxxxx on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:03PM (#15731157)
The US will do fine without cheap labor from Infosys and others. These people aren't top developers
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by dang on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:21PM (#15731492)
Could you please not post unsupported generalizations that put other people down? Assuming you're right doesn't make this a substantive HN comment, or a good one, and the last thing we need is more flamebait on inflammatory topics.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by maxxxxx on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:41PM (#15731571)
This was in response to a post worrying about the people who are impacted by this rule going to other countries and the US therefore missing out. It's pretty well known that a significant part of H-1 visas are used by companies like Infosys to get in cheap developers. If these people are not able to get a 90k offer in the US they are probably not worth much which matches my personal observation.

There are plenty of very good people who can't get an H-1 because the quota is used for cheap people. I came here on an H-1 myself and it was quite difficult because the quota got used by bodyshops. My life would have been easier if they had set a minimum salary.

[dead]
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by dang on Saturday November 18, 2017 @07:22PM (#15731499)
Personal attacks will get you banned here. Just because someone else posts a bad comment doesn't mean it's ok for you to post a bad one, let alone one like this, which is the sort of thing we ban people for. Please don't do this again.
Re:US committee votes $30,000 increase in minimum salary of ... by skellera on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:33PM (#15731297)
That’s the right attitude to have.

Your argument would hold more weight if you actually gave a counterpoint instead of attacking someone you don’t even know.