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A comment on Write tests. Not too many. Mostly integration. Parent comment

Re:Write tests. Not too many. Mostly integration by crdoconnor on Friday October 27, 2017 @08:17AM (#15567607)
>I find when you're writing tests first, you're being forced to write code without understanding the problem space yet and you don't have enough code yet to see the better abstractions.

That's why it's better to start with the highest level tests first and then move down an abstraction level once you have a clearer understanding of what abstractions you will need.

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Re:Write tests. Not too many. Mostly integration by seanwilson on Friday October 27, 2017 @01:35PM (#15570513)
Can you do that with TDD though? Why not just sketch the code out first before you start writing tests?

I find TDD proponents don't take into account that writing tests can actually be really time consuming and challenging, and when you've got a lot of code that is tests, refactoring your tests becomes very tedious.

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Re:Write tests. Not too many. Mostly integration by crdoconnor on Friday October 27, 2017 @06:12PM (#15572619)
You can do that with TDD (it's called outside-in), although I agree that it is time consuming and challenging, especially without the right tools.
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