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Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by yeukhon on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:54PM (#15555308)
I am a Chinese so my family usually have some Chinese contractor do the moving. A couple years ago my family and I bought a home (finally!) and we hired a contractor to come in, after my family and I had packed up everything (since my dad is a jack-of-all-trade kind of a smart man).

The contractor paid two Hispanic workers to do most of the heavy-lifting work, but we also helped anyway so we get the move done ASAP. The hardest thing to move was the heavy massage chair so we let them moved the chair. They are strong...

I don't know how much we paid the contractor in total, but I know it didn't go above 1000. We tipped the contractor and also tipped the workers separately ($150 each). We are very generous when we work with nice and hardworking people. They deserve the bonus, especially knowing the contractor wouldn't pay them a lot. So tipping to us have to be personal, and shouldn't be part of a system.

I mention this story because the hiring process may seem bizarre to the non-Chinese immigrants. Contractors (construction or moving) usually hire workers off the street. There is a place the contractors will find workers waiting to get a job. So yes, these workers are literally picked that morning like 7AM and the guy came around 11AM since the contractor had another job early that morning. The contractor might find another pair the next day.

The truth is, every community has its own way to find people to do work for them. In the Chinese immigrant community, we almost never hire an expensive professional contractor. We (at least the people I know) believe Americans charge us way more for the same, if not, less quality work. We "joke" about how schools can save so much money if they'd pay a licensed Chinese contractor.

My dad also doesn't use Uber because (1) he doesn't speak very good English, and (2) he can call a driver for $25 going to JFK with just one call (plus maybe $10, $20 tip). We can go anywhere in the tri-state area in range of $20-$75 in a comfortable SUV. The Chinese community (Korean and Spanish community also have this) also have a shuttle bus that goes from Queens<->Chinatown, Flushing<->Chinatown, Brookyln 8 ave<->Chinatown for $2-$3 dollar. You call the call center, tell the operator which shuttle stop to pick up from.

"If it ain't broken, don't change." For the same service quality, why go for something more expensive?

Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by rtpg on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:22PM (#15555432)
You've mentioned it yourself: Many of the people in these systems are likely underpaid. Systemic exploitation is the name of the game for a lot of the base infrastructure in our society.

I'm for communities helping each other, but in your moving example you think those workers have health insurance? Why do you have to sneak the tips?

I bet the bus drivers make a good amount of money though.

Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by yeukhon on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:01PM (#15555558)
I didn't have to sneak the tips. I simply walked up to them and paid. The boss wouldn't care. He was tipped too. Of course, we don't show the boss how much we tipped the workers.

When it comes to insurance, yes, that sucks, this is where we need one-payer system, which will make insurance available to everyone. Also, the current Affordable Care Act does not require a company less than 50 people to provide insurance to employees. I also do not believe half of the "professional" local contractors have more than five full-time employees if I were to bet. The ones we did hire (because we couldn't find a qualified one in our Chinese community) run the business with at most 2-3 guys, and are usually family-owned. Subcontractors are hired if the contractor is given a bigger job. You don't need twenty people to renovate a house or fix a sewage pipe. It is not economical for most contractors to have too many full time employees waiting around. The competition is huge.

Also, I think these workers aren't always underpaid. Freelancers can make good money. I don't have any evidences to prove, but if they work 5 days a week, and make $200 per job, they can make $4000 a month. See, the pair we got had two jobs in one morning, so they probably made more than $200 that day along with some tips. I am not defending underpaid, but I am sure these movers make good money in the end. Extremely hard work, but they can make good money. Walnut can't even exist if there were only a hundred jobs a day in NY. I pass by a barn truck lot everyday, and I can say with confident at least 3-4 days a week the lot is mostly empty, so there must be enough demand for a barn truck business to survive. So should the moving industry.

Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by sidegrid on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:32PM (#15555458)
Why in the US do you have to rely on the employer to provide health insurance? So weird.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by thatswrong0 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:36PM (#15555480)
A couple of pieces of legislation in the 1940s and 1950s had the effect of encouraging companies to offer health benefits in lieu of others forms of compensation. Seems to have just snowballed from there.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by SkippyGuy on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:38PM (#15555484)
That doesn't make it right.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by toomuchtodo on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @11:14PM (#15556097)
We're working on getting it fixed. Pardon our dust.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by burnte on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:35PM (#15561151)
No one said it did, the question was why was it this way. This person explained.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by oconnor663 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @10:56PM (#15556010)
Everyone agrees that it's terrible, but it's hard to change anything without screwing over at least one huge industry in some way, plus now the question is totally politicized and everyone assumes the worst about everyone else's intentions.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by gumby on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:44PM (#15555504)
It is absurd; its roots lie in world war II wage controls and then once the interests were entrenched, it stuck. Plus a change in the rules on health care profits in, IIRC, the 1980s.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by ac29 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @10:54PM (#15556007)
About half of the US gets government-sponsored healthcare (via Medicaid, Medicare, or one of the state-run programs). The other half don't, and getting it via your employer is generally a win-win (they are providing a benefit that costs them nothing [0], and you get to pay for healthcare via pre-tax income). You certainly don't have to rely on your employer for healthcare, you can buy any legal health insurance you like with your own money.

[0] Yes, it is extremely common for employers to pay for healthcare in full or in part (and the ACA complicates this a little), but there is no reason employers have to pay anything in order for employees to realize the tax benefit.

Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by vkou on Thursday October 26, 2017 @06:22AM (#15557657)
It helps large firms maintain a captive workforce.
Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by cpursley on Thursday October 26, 2017 @10:48AM (#15559269)
> Many of the people in these systems are likely underpaid

This is largely anecdotal, but back when I was doing landscaping over summers in high school and college (2002-2005). For some tasks (installing sod grass, for example), I'd pick up undocumented Central American day laborers^. They would not even get into my truck for less than $14 per hour plus lunch. There's fewer of these laborers around the Atlanta area these days, but from I hear, they still require well over minimum wage.

^ We did our best to avoid hiring from this pool but finding reliable day labor from any legal source was nearly impossible at any price.

Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by icebraining on Thursday October 26, 2017 @04:01AM (#15557150)
My dad also doesn't use Uber because (1) he doesn't speak very good English

That's curious, one of the advantages of Uber for me is that I don't have to speak the local language, since I can preselect the destination on the app.

Coincidentally, TAL had a story on a car service from Chinatown on a recent episode: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/622/...

Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by underwoodley on Thursday October 26, 2017 @05:47AM (#15557540)
Your answer says something about why tips-included doesn't work.

For generous people like your family, you feel happy giving good workers a big tip. It's not just part of the moving cost, but a small good deed. Participating in this is something extra you get for your money. You wouldn't get the same feeling from an included tip, which you can't be sure goes straight to the worker. Presumably if the movers were lazy or rude you would also be glad that you could choose to tip less.

For cheapskates who stiff on the tip regardless of the quality of the service, tips-included just means a higher cost for them.

Re:Why we’re closing Walnut by Double_a_92 on Thursday October 26, 2017 @07:35AM (#15557974)
So black labor and exploitation? ._.