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Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by xapata on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:41PM (#15546718)
That lady may have purchased her place in order to have a sunlit garden. It's frustrating there's not an easy way for that housing development to simply compensate the gardener fairly for her loss of sunlight, along with everyone else nearby who is adversely affected. Of course, she could also be charged a fee for the benefits of increasing density -- more restaurant options, etc. -- according to how much she appreciates them. It's tough to calculate these things.

So many aspects of our society seem forced to either-or situations when some compromise would benefit all parties more.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by malloryerik on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:52AM (#15548044)
Compensate her for her loss... Well, she's been very well compensated for all of the other people's work around her that has turned her property into a huge economic windfall for her while she was busy tending to her urban zucchini patch.

Land value tax, please.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by adolph on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:56AM (#15549291)
Taxing granny out of the family’s old home is a political nonstarter right?
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by refurb on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:18AM (#15549803)
Put a lien against her house - property taxes aren't due until either the owner's death or a sale.

Granny gets to stay in her house and the market isn't distorted by perverse incentives. A win for everyone!

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by craftyguy on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:41AM (#15549980)
So when the county needs more tax $$$, they just need to off a few grannies to collect, right?
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by Redoubts on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:48AM (#15550060)
Sorry, my compassion for the tax problems of millionaires is somewhat low.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by adolph on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @11:18AM (#15550823)
Your feelings don't matter. The political viability of a solution matters. Nobody got (re-)elected saying "let's tax granny."

Moreover, granny might be a paper millionaire based on the current valuation of a principal asset but otherwise be eating cat food.

Why doesn't she just cash out? I think the below linked blog post has some insight into how each asset of a person isn't an isolated atom but represents a structure of complements.

For example, maybe Granny can't drive and walks down to the community center every day to help immigrant kindergarteners learn to code. If she moved maybe she loses exercise and a reason to live and her lives and those of others are negatively impacted in ways money from selling a house can't fix. Or maybe, since Halloween is coming up, she is a sadistic cat killer and if she sells her house and moves the whole neighborhood is overrun with feral felines reducing everyone's property value due to fears of cat scratch fever.

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/10/sel...

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by Redoubts on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @11:38AM (#15550997)
If the neighborhood is so nice, she can trade up for a townhouse or condo in the area. None of those problems are solved with a low density single family home.

> Your feelings don’t matter

They do when the argument begins and ends with tugging at my heart strings. And I honestly don’t see these Jarvis arguments from the 70s holding up for much longer. Not when everyone else is hurting.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by malloryerik on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:32PM (#15554467)
Yes! Also, a land value tax does not tax the property value, but only the land's value, so the same amount of tax is owed by these neighboring plots:

1) an empty lot, 2) a single family home, and 3) a 30 floor residential tower,

presuming they're equally-sized lots with equal land value.

If granny's taxes are high, the answer is to put her land to productive use like by adding rental units instead of growing zucchini. Or sell and buy better land for hobby zucchini gardening (or grow it on the roof of her new tower).

Regulations don't allow her to add rental units? Then it's the regulations that are bad, and finally land value taxes are aligning land owners' and renters' interests instead of dividing them.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by unethical_ban on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @10:21AM (#15550307)
Sorry, not all people affected by gentrification and urban growth are millionaires.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by Redoubts on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @10:31AM (#15550408)
They are in this discussion.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by crdoconnor on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:54PM (#15553035)
Market forces pushing her out of her rented home doesn't appear to raise any eyebrows.

Faux compassion for granny is how prop 13 got passed though, so sure, people fall for this shit.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by wbl on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:53AM (#15550110)
Not a Californian I take it. Because Granny's grandkids inherit the Prop 13 valuation.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by fraserharris on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @11:09PM (#15547134)
You're implying that in purchasing a property you acquire a perpetual right to the sunlight that exists on the day you purchased. There is no such right. If this gardener wanted to retain that sunlight, they should have purchased the lot next door, put a building-height covenant on it, and resold it. They would incur a loss due to the covenant, but that is the cost of legally gaining the right to that sunlight.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by dagw on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:34AM (#15548678)
There is no such right.

Perhaps not in California, but it's worth noting that some places, England being among the forefront in this[0], do recognize the right to light is an important property right.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_light

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by makomk on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:56AM (#15549021)
Ultimately, if buyers believed that it would be necessary to go to that extent to to maintain sunlight in their own back garden, the original developer would've done so and we'd just end up talking about how states should override covenants instead in the HN comments about how people shouldn't have a right to sunlight.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by athenot on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:59AM (#15550154)
Solar easements exist in many jurisdictions now (typically for solar panels).

For Georgia: https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-44/chapter-9...

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by xapata on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:37PM (#15554013)
While it's possible for any individual to put a price on just about anything, it ain't always easy (as you just explained). We've decided that it's the government's responsibility to help put a price on some of these ineffables -- air quality, etc.

For a well-functioning market that doesn't get bothered by protests and other political machinations, the government needs to provide an easy mechanism to pay for whatever it is you care about. Any market which is restricted to folks who can afford high-cost lawyers and custom legal contracts, that market will be inefficient. Saying, "put a building-height covenant on it" in effect means "let's spend money and time on political advertisements and protests so neither of us are happy."

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by wbl on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:52AM (#15550106)
Zucchini lady moved into a suburb of one the regions growing the fastest, 20 minutes by rail from a growing employment center. She could have moved to North Bumfuck if she wanted to make sure nothing would ever change, and decided not to. When she moved in she knew houses could be built that would cast shade on her backyard. Why should society accommodate her wishes and not the need for more housing? Most countries don't have single family zoning in urban areas.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:03AM (#15548812)
I regret that this lady may be losing the ideal conditions for a hobby she enjoys. That's a terrible reason to block affordable housing development.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by friendzis on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:24AM (#15548895)
This is very utilitarian view. Quite probably purchasing zucchini at the market is cheaper than home growing few plants, yet to some people having home-grown zucchini (or apple, grape, onion whatever) is the goal. There are many properties of a property (pun intended) that different people value differently. Density is one of the factors and some people deliberately seek properties in low density areas. Each additional restaurant, each additional piece of property can be seen as destroying the fairy tale world.

Compromises can only be found where all parties are to gain something. If one group are to gain something - housing in this case - and whatever they can offer will reduce negative impact to others - local residents - there is simply no compromise to be found because whatever the state of neighborhood was when they moved in, it was the best compromise in their view.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by rahimnathwani on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:09AM (#15549083)
"no compromise to be found because whatever the state of neighborhood was when they moved in, it was the best compromise in their view"

But the radius within which homeowners gain is wider than the radius in which homeowners bear inconveniences (e.g. shade on their garden). So of course it's rational for a homeowner to be pro commercial development in their city and near their neighbourhood (as it would increase demand for housing, and hence increase property value), but against commercial development near enough to affect traffic and noise levels.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by friendzis on Thursday October 26, 2017 @01:07AM (#15556494)
There is a problem with the mystic rational consumer, because theories assume that core goal of every market participant is to increase value. Taking actions toward increasing property value are only rational with intention to put the property into market. Without such intentions (e.g. owner plans to spend the rest of their days there) owner's interest is in keeping the property (and the neighborhood) as it is, maybe even decreasing real value.

While increasing property value may seem rational to probably the majority, but given certain circumstances, preferences and goals the opposite can be easily argued to be rational. With modern metropolis lifestyle of changing home every some years based on workplace location, family size, etc. one is always in the market and increased real property value is quite favorable economically. For some groups changes in property value are seen as irrelevant in face of non-economic values.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by rahimnathwani on Thursday October 26, 2017 @09:06AM (#15558421)
This is interesting but is tangential to my point: compensating NIMBYs isn't a viable strategy.

OT, but:

"Taking actions toward increasing property value are only rational with intention to put the property into market"

No, even if you intend to die in your current home, increasing property values are great if (i) you can borrow against the value, to fund current expenditure and (ii) property taxes don't go up as a result (yay California).

"lifestyle of changing home every some years based on workplace location, family size, etc. one is always in the market and increased real property value is quite favorable"

I think that depends on whether you're trading up or trading down. If you want to buy a place double the size of your current one (e.g. to raise a family), then you'd want prices to be lower. As the differential between the sale price of your existing home, and the purchase price of the new one, would be lower.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by friendzis on Friday October 27, 2017 @12:38AM (#15565755)
> even if you intend to die in your current home, increasing property values are great if

Exactly, certain things can be argued to be either advantageous or disadvantageous, depending on mindset/worldview, focus duration (long-term vs short-term goals), focus population (single individual vs average/median of population), etc. and these are core to public policy making.

And that is my point: attempts to maximize quality of life for a single individual/family for a few years naturally lead to NIMBYs. And they are not inherently wrong - annoying with different focus (e.g. median citizen after few decades), but not wrong.

Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by rahimnathwani on Friday October 27, 2017 @12:24PM (#15569858)
They're rational.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by nkrisc on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:56AM (#15550133)
If sunlight for gardening is that important, then purchasing a property in an urban center was the wrong move to begin with. She would have been better off purchasing land in an agricultural area if growing zucchini was that important as to drive her property purchasing decision.
Re:How did we create a society where we can’t afford to live... by jdavis703 on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:41PM (#15547008)
There is an easy way: the developer just writes her a check equivalent to whatever it takes to rent a garden patch somewhere for 50 years. Not that a developer should have to do that for the land they have rights on, but if they want to take away her argument that's one method.