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Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by balls187 on Monday October 23, 2017 @06:49PM (#15537576)
To express a ratio of 1000000:1, you need at least 20bits. I think that's all the article is saying, and that far more bits than the current contrast ratio that is supported--essentially show that we're far off from supporting actual contrast ratios.

I didn't interpret the articles premise that if you had 20 bits, you could 100% reproduce the light in a scene.

Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by robotresearcher on Monday October 23, 2017 @09:42PM (#15538570)
> To express a ratio of 1000000:1, you need at least 20bits.

You only need 1 bit if you declare an encoding scheme where 1 == 1 million. You need 20 bits to define 1 million DIFFERENT luminances. Their ratio is subject to an arbitrary scaling.

Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by chrisseaton on Monday October 23, 2017 @06:55PM (#15537600)
Sorry I still don't get it :)

> To express a ratio of 1000000:1, you need at least 20 bits.

You mean to express all the integer factors in the range 1000000:1, you need at least 20 bits. With 20 bits you can represent 1 times brighter, 2 times brighter ... 1000000 times brighter.

But there's nothing special about those coefficients. 20 bits does not allow you to represent 1.5 times brighter. That's still in the range 1000000:1 but 20 bits isn't enough to represent it.

If we're happy to skip 1.5 times brighter, why can't we skip all the even integer times brighter values, and use 19 bits?

Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by dragonwriter on Monday October 23, 2017 @07:02PM (#15537656)
> If we're happy to skip 1.5 times brighter, why can't we skip all the even integer times brighter values, and use 19 bits?

Things get wonky if you don't have a linear scale with a true zero; in such a scale the low end of your N:1 contrast ratio (in the smallest representation) has a value of 1, and the high end has a value of N.

Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by tripzilch on Saturday October 28, 2017 @06:46AM (#15574675)
Good thing in real life there's no such thing as truly zero photons, then (which is a detail the article actually shortly touches upon).

Also, if that type of "wonky" throws off your rendering pipeline, you're bound to get something else wrong.

Such as ever having a linear scale with a small number of bits in your pipeline. The linear scaled brightness stays afloat all the way through (cause floats have this handy feature of being transparently sorta-logarithmic in the way they use their bits, even 16-bit floats beat 20-bit ints for that purpose), only at the very end you apply the tonemap+gamma function(s), then dither, then truncate to fixed (8) bit integer.

Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by comex on Monday October 23, 2017 @11:53PM (#15539076)
Hmm… but the actual display’s representation of 0 cannot be darker than the minimum brightness value it supports. If 1 really is 1x the minimum, then 0 and 1 have to be displayed identically. But then your scale isn’t even linear, nor does it have a true zero. How does that help?

edit: And aren’t output color spaces already highly nonlinear due to gamma correction?

Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by colejohnson66 on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @01:59AM (#15539549)
0 is the lowest and x-1 is the highest for a ratio of 1:x. It’s 1 all the way to x; You just subtract one because computers start counting from 0
Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by comex on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @06:03PM (#15545616)
But in that case, skipping "even integer times brighter values" wouldn't exclude 0 - because 0 is 1x brighter, an odd integer.
Re:Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping by colejohnson66 on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @01:58AM (#15539543)
Is that the reason you can’t just chop off the two least significant bits when converting from 10-bit to 8-bit?