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Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by pygy_ on Monday October 23, 2017 @05:49PM (#15537213)
Sustainable growth is an oxymoron.

The economy is a dissipative system.

It consumes energy/creates entropy to sustain itself. In its current state it already consumes more than the earth/sun can supply. Having it grow even more means consuming ever more energy (fossil and nuclear fuel is finite, the sun light is constant), and generating ever more entropy (i.e. pollution, heat, and ecosystems destruction).

Edit: also, improvements in efficiency have historically lead to a global increase in energy consumption because of the growth they spurred, and you can't get past 100%.

Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by maxerickson on Monday October 23, 2017 @06:09PM (#15537350)
The sun can supply an awful lot of power. Humans use something like 10 or 20 terawatts of power (constantly), the sun smacks the earth with ~100 petawatts of power.
Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by pygy_ on Monday October 23, 2017 @07:05PM (#15537670)
Given how destructive we are at 20 TW, I don't want to see what will happen when we consume more.
Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by pygy_ on Monday October 23, 2017 @07:58PM (#15538020)
Does your estimation take into account the energy absorbed by the plans we farm?
Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by maxerickson on Monday October 23, 2017 @08:32PM (#15538203)
No, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption

We spend a lot of that sun on meat and other livestock products though:

https://ourworldindata.org/yields-and-land-use-in-agricultur...

(the numbers in the second figure)

Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by pygy_ on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:31AM (#15539656)
Thanks
Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by dredmorbius on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:44PM (#15552928)
Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by mikeash on Monday October 23, 2017 @06:03PM (#15537307)
Human energy consumption isn’t anywhere close to what the sun supplies. We just don’t capture much of it.

Life is a dissipative system too. It consumes energy and generates entropy. This can’t go on forever, but I wouldn’t take that as an argument against life.

Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by pygy_ on Monday October 23, 2017 @07:04PM (#15537662)
But life had up to now evolved to function at a sustainable level.

It can't go on forever indeed there's a thing called the heat death of the universe, but it is sufficiently far in the future that I don't care about it.

The shit that happens now means that my kids won't be able to have children in good conscience (I already feel sorry for them for the mess I put them in).

Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by eplanit on Monday October 23, 2017 @06:48PM (#15537572)
Discussions of "sustainable" are, to me, disingenuous and incomplete, because nobody ever wants to confront the root issue: population size. Really, no ecological practice is "sustainable" in the face of ever-increasing population size. If we could achieve stability and predictability in the size and scope of the human species, then we can find truly sustainable practices. Without that, it's just a buzz word.
Re:Insects Are in Serious Trouble by pygy_ on Monday October 23, 2017 @07:08PM (#15537684)
Food limits how far the population can grow anyway.

AFAIK the energy consumption (and thus the pollution) for the benefit of developed nations far outweighs the one that benefits the poorer ones whose population increases.