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Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by danpalmer on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @12:36PM (#15443157)
I feel calling all 8 of these companies "analytics" is a little unfair.

Pusher is a SaaS product for websockets and push notifications. I think it's reasonable that a company like CircleCI might outsource this instead of maintaining the infrastructure for it in-house.

Launch Darkly is a feature flagging service. While I feel the value is much less than Pusher (and I'd be inclined to just build an in-house solution), I think it's still a relatively reasonable tool to use to create a better user experience.

Intercom when used for customer communication is also something that I feel I'd want as a user, although this could perhaps only be loaded when requested by the user.

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by tptacek on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @12:43PM (#15443233)
Why does this matter? Most 3rd party services are "reasonable" in some setting. When you build a highly-sensitive application, the bar for reasonableness changes.
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by 45h34jh53k4j on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:22PM (#15444095)
This is a world where internet banking and healthcare, arguably the canonical 'highly-sensitive applications', are using 3rd party js services like this. I think we need to redefine 'reasonable' as the industry clearly isn't acting reasonably (IMHO).
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by xorcist on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:44PM (#15444779)
There is no reason to accept that your bank runs javascript from third parties. Complain and use only in an environment where you can block them. While it may seem futile to report these transgressions to big institutions, the fact that your complaints are logged helps those fighting these stupidities from the inside.
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by avip on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:44PM (#15444781)
The overwhelming majority of online financial services would self-host everything. It's not strictly a PCI-DSS compliance requirement, but it is common sense and industry standard.
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @11:06PM (#15447008)
You wish!
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by rhizome on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @12:56PM (#15443355)
So, startups and companies hire for standard, coglike (CTCI) CS skills, yet they outsource basic functionality.

There should be a corollary to NIH Syndrome[1] that takes into account 3rd party APIs. The way I see it, it's not about reinventing the wheel, it's about having your house in order.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by convolvatron on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:04PM (#15443428)
if you can't even _run your own software to perform tests_ then maybe you should reconsider developing software
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by johnksawers on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:32PM (#15443673)
Whether we can run the tests ourselves, and whether we want to spend the engineering time to build and/or maintain an in-house CI system are two very different questions.

Whether a developer (or business person) made a business decision to outsource CI has nothing to do with technical competence.

Using SaaS for any business data has a risk, but usually it's worth it. I'm sure you use slack, slack could be breached, and I'm sure no one at your company has ever slacked a password to someone else.

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by bdcravens on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:21PM (#15444084)
> whether we want to spend the engineering time to build and/or maintain an in-house CI system are two very different questions

Developers tend to trivialize this: we tend to only consider the initial setup time, and pretend no further work is necessary.

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by iamdave on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:59PM (#15444398)
I've been spending the last year unravelling a ball of yarn wrapped in another ball of yarn because of "guy before me" syndrome who believed this. Fully.
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by convolvatron on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:47PM (#15444795)
I think I was reacting to my parent use of the word 'trivial' and 'keeping your house in order'. Its not that I believe that circle-ci has no value in any circumstance.

you can say that they are 'doing it wrong', but without execption the shops I've been in that use CI tools

  o have one guy, maybe no longer with the group, that set up the CI deployment and no one else knows how to deal with it
  o dont have a firm control of their development build and dependencies and the different CI environment is a constant source of shear
  o are running a service with its own deployment chain, which differs in environment from the CI server and should arguable be used for tests
  o dont have a decent way of running the tests outside the CI environment at all, which makes debugging CI failures pretty problematic 
  o because of the single maintainer issue, new tests often dont get integrated into the CI, which is really conterproductive
  o for distributed services and services with runtime dependencies, the CI isn't really providing the whole picture (meaning we should really be using the delopment tools to spin up transient test instances anyways)
  o the state in the CI often tool doesn't get packaged up with the repo, so it doesn't transition easily to other development teams
focussing on the 'keeping your house in order', CI is often providing a solution to a small part of the overall test and development problem and creating artifical boundaries.

I'm very sympathetic to avoiding wasting time on home grown solutions (even if they are as trivial as 'run these 50 tests and collect status). but if the development effort is sufficiently small, or sufficiently complex, I think external CI is actually costing more than its worth, or giving people a false sense of comfort about their testing and dependency management. thats all without considering any trust issues.

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by bdcravens on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:19PM (#15444068)
Services like Circle CI tend to add functionality like deployment, but the same is true.

That said, the same could be said of any piece in the stack: Why use a framework? Why use Github? Why use hosted email? Why use cloud? Why not hand new hires a blank laptop and a USB key with the latest Ubuntu?

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by dbrgn on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:11PM (#15446052)
> Why not hand new hires a blank laptop and a USB key with the latest Ubuntu?

That's what I got at my last two jobs (minus Ubuntu), and I loved it.

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by ballenf on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:18PM (#15443538)
I feel like narrowing down what any of those companies could do to what they are doing today irresponsible. And analytics is one of the could-do's that many third party tools do offer or add on later to increase monetization or perceived value to customers.

The important point is that there are now 8 attack surfaces instead of 1. Whether they're analytics or pad-string doesn't really matter.

Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by danpalmer on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:21PM (#15443575)
I agree there are now 8 attack surfaces, but to call all 8 "analytics" I does not think does justice to the reasons why CircleCI may have chosen to use some of them.
Re:CircleCI trusts 8 analytics companies with your source co... by imtringued on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @04:14PM (#15444994)
>The important point is that there are now 8 attack surfaces instead of 1.

That's the best case scenario. What if these 8 companies also give the source code to other companies?