I don't accept that. I think it's a common sense approach. I don't want my phone connecting to things without my involvement.

If the icons were consistent and there was a setting to toggle the behaviour of Control Centre then it would be a non-issue. I could set it up the way I want and it would work as it used to in iOS 10. But the icons are inconsistent and, as far as I know, there's no such setting.

You don't accept it on what possible grounds? Do you really think the majority of iOS users, or even a sizeable minority, use their phones in the way you do?

That it's ridiculous. Reread what I have written. I made no comment on what the majority of iOS users do. I'm talking about what I do.

I'm sorry but you absolutely did. You were asked whether you "accept that [turning off mobile data, wifi, and bluetooth and only re-enabling them when you explicitly need them] is a ridiculously small minority use case", to which you replied "I don't accept that", and then followed on with a non sequitur about it being a "common sense approach."

"shit has to taste good, millions of flies eat it every day"

"I don't accept that."

Addressing the strongest possible reading and all that.

> a non sequitur about it being a "common sense approach."

Just read "common sense approach" as "that makes sense to me" and it fits perfectly. As for common sense, ask random people on the street what they think turning something "off" means. Do you think you'll find even ONE person who says "oh, that probably means it'll stay off until I change location, or until 5 AM, whatever comes sooner?". That's the elephant on the couch.

The use case of what you or most would find convenient, and would prefer to have available with one touch instead of more, is completely orthogonal to what all of this is about -- the common sense of what any normal person who isn't bent on defending Apple just because would respond with 1000 times out of 1000: of how to read UI in this case. Consider it a use case for the UI, and to even suggest just one person actually has the use case you declare to be such a majority they must be catered to without any further investigation (e.g. if the majority is wrong, that should strengthen, not weaken your resolve) truly is ridiculous.

It's not a minority use case. It's just a use case that is poorly accommodated by a large majority of smartphones. This leads to much higher data usage and higher revenue for carriers than would be the case if smartphones were a little more on the user's side.

I have a smartphone that offers reasonable controls on cellular data use on a per-app basis, in addition to easy system-wide toggles for WiFi and cellular data. It's easy for me to keep cellular data off most of the time, as I'm usually within WiFi range or taking short trips (eg. grocery shopping) where there's no inconvenience to being offline for a while. As a result, I get great battery life out of my phone and don't need a multi-GB data plan unless I'm traveling for most of the month. The TCO for my smartphone is a small fraction of what's typical with an iPhone on a major carrier, but I have full access to the capabilities of my smartphone and its LTE connection, when I decide to use them.

Everyone benefits from longer battery life.

Can you show me the use case for turning it ack on at 5 in the morning every 24 hours even though you have not changed location? Until then you have nothing, in defense of something that shouldn't be defended. Would it kill you to say "yeah, Apple should make it more obvious" and move on? What's with the kool-aid?

For the record that's how I do it too. Saves lots of battery and I'm not actively using the phone that frequently.

Are you actually sure it affects battery life that much?

I'm a bit dubious about this - in fact, turning off WiFi would actually harm battery life, surely, compared to LTE?

If by LTE you mean mobile data, I have that off too as I don't have a data plan. I can say the battery definitely runs down a lot faster with WiFi on but I don't have specific hard stats to back that up.

Wow. This exchange is one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen on HN.

I'm kind of fascinated to hear from people who spend money on things only to disable all of the things that make the thing worth spending money on.

If someone tried to tell me that the default behavior of a product should be to not function, I think I would go through the roof.

That isn't fair. My microwave "doesn't work" until I press some buttons. I leave my bluetooth, wifi and data on most days because I have bluetooth headphones and I want people to be able to send me messages and stuff. Sometimes I turn them off to get the battery to last longer. It seems like it could be quite reasonable for a large group of non-technical users to be quite happy with a phone that turns off the radios when the screen is off.