> Why do I have a feeling that if we deployed computer scientists at medical research we would get a better result?

Because comp sci has an arrogance problem that rivals that of doctors?

> Because comp sci has an arrogance problem that rivals that of doctors?

Nailed it!

The only difference (from my perspective of course) is comp sci arrogance is directed towards our field and associated methodologies, principles, etc. Doctors direct their arrogance towards themselves.

This generalization is pretty large and may itself be an example of arrogance. But I think maybe it's just the brevity of your comment that gives this impression.

Thanks for being charitable, I did not mean to imply that what I claim many comp sci people do is any better or less arrogant, just different.

It implies you know what doctors do about as well as you know what comp sci people do, by virtue of comparing the two. The comp sci part is at risk of taking your anecdotal experience as too representative of the whole. The doctor part is (presumably) at risk of relying on stereotypes about doctors having "God complexes" ... So to get to an effective general comparison would be quite difficult without more accurate data. Buuut if we see ourselves as smart computer people, maybe we think more highly of our own inferences than they deserve. I would expect doctors' arrogance has a lot to do with their training and respect for their processes and practices as being highly reliable and advanced. Rather than them personally just having a talent for doctoring.

Most professionals in the field of medicine were educated towards an elitist and dogmatic mindset. When I talk with a physician about the human body I always get the impression they really believe the body works as described in the books - exactly like that. Most of them didn't seem to have noticed or learned that what we know about medicine is just theory approximating reality and all of those theories had to be updated sooner or later - always.

one time i got a sore throat and fevor, the fevor wouldnt break for 7 days. the entire time i could feel the spot where my sickness was coming from. i looked in a mirror and there were puss modules - classic strep throat. I go to the doctor, she does the strep test and it comes back negative, she refuses to prescribe me antibiotics and told me to just go home and rest.

luckily, i had a penicillin script that I didnt finish, and after the first pill the sore throat (and the fever) broke within hours.

later when talking to my brother (who is a doctor), he told me the problem, one that he had also. When he gave the step test, it came back negative even when he knew it was positive. an older attending told him that you have to really get it in there, rub it around for a long time in order for it to work, where most just do a quick swipe.

another such example was someone came to the ER with chest pain. they didnt detect anything in the blood test so they were going to send him home. my brother refused and ordered more tests. turns out he was in the middle of having a heart attack when they were going to send him home, because ... the test.

the moral to the story is, many doctors blindly rely on tests and whats in the book, and disregard contradicting evidence.

Your doc just did the physician equivalent of "closed, cannot reproduce".

Also, shame on you for not finishing your antibiotic prescription. Always finish your antibiotic! If you don't finish, you run the risk of a resurgence of the infection, except this time with bacteria resistant to the antibiotic you failed to finish.

If you really feel like you need a private stash of antibiotic, buy amoxicillin for aquarium fish instead of saving portions of old prescriptions. And make sure you weigh yourself and appropriately calculate the mg/kg dosage before using it.

(I understand that this is hypocritical to shame someone for not finishing a prescription antibiotic and also to recommend misuse of veterinary antibiotics.)

> Always finish your antibiotic!

Opinions differ:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/26/rule-patient...

Fyi for a healthy person taking anti biotics for strep has almost no effect (reduces symptoms by like 12 hours) except you stop being contagious much faster. So it wasn't really that critical.

Medical doctors are not Ph.D.'s. They are technicians, more akin to an auto mechanic than a scientist.

> more akin to an auto mechanic than a scientist

Keep in mind that society has chosen to have physicians carry social and often moral authority. They are the modern priests and priestesses of our secular world.

What stings when a physician is impatient or misses something obvious is the disrespect people feel because of the physician's venerated status. It's as if a person of faith is visiting a Bishop and the Bishop mutters a profanity during the blessing.

The irritation and accusations of arrogance toward physicians that are found in this thread are (if read carefully) reflections of the unique, clergy-like role that physicians play. A physician's opinion can get you decades of workers comp or can deny it to you, it can make you feel responsible for a health problem or vindicated, it can result in the removal of pain or the continuation of it. Physicians let some people get high every day on any number of drugs, declare others bad surgical candidates, and instill (or withhold) hope in those whose life hangs in the balance.

It's a deeply moral role, and the trend toward free healthcare for all is analogous to publishing the bible in languages besides Latin. Physicians are gatekeepers to redemption and this makes some people very angry.

I make the same analogy all the time, but I'm reminded of an old joke[1]:

A mechanic was removing a cylinder-head from the motor of a Harley motorcycle when he spotted a well-known cardiologist in his shop.

The cardiologist was there waiting for the service manager to come and take a look at his bike when the mechanic shouted across the garage.

"Hey, Doc, want to take a look at this?"

The cardiologist, a bit surprised, walked over to where the mechanic was working on the motorcycle.

The mechanic straightened up, wiped his hands on a rag and asked, "So Doc, look at this engine. I open its' heart, take the valves out, repair any damage, and then put them back in, and when I finish, it works just like new. So how come I make $39,675 a year and you get the really big bucks ($1,695,759) when you and I are doing basically the same work?"

The cardiologist paused, smiled and leaned over, then whispered to the mechanic.....

"Try doing it with the engine running."

[1] Found a better version than the one I was screwing up in the retelling at https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/983804-joke-harley-mechan...

(I get the point you're making, but many, at least in the UK, are also dual qualified: Ph.D's as well as MDs.)

Reminds me of this: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/can-modern-neuroscie...

As I said in my comment, at a macro level. I just don't understand how new human anatomical features that are not even at a microscopic level are still being discovered in 2017. It boggles the mind.

Replace "Algorithms" with "Machine learning" and you have 2017.

Hardly the same thing.

It is... exactly what you're saying. Except it's satire, and unfortunately you seem to be serious.

Read: I can accept that at the lower level things get fiendishly complex, but surely at a macro level like this it's just a case of diligent analysis?

How are they missing features that are visible with the human eye? I find it incredible.

Also, XKCD meme is the tiredest meme around.

You should post this on r/iamverysmart, they would "love" you.

I think this may be an example of the Dunning–Kruger effect - when they complexities aren't understood, it's easy to makes assumptions where you simplify to absurdity.

Dunning-Kruger is another lazy meme.

Computer scientists are the new physicists: https://xkcd.com/793/