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Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by opportune on Sunday October 01, 2017 @05:26PM (#15379904)
I'm surprised this article doesn't try to address the reasons this is happening. It mentions that the employers (universities) benefit from students funding themselves, and I'm not super familiar with the UK's academic system, but this seems to be an oversight by the author/editor since most PhD students (in the US, at least) are funded to do their research.

I think the most important reasons we have a glut of PhDs who can't find academic jobs are that

1. Education is becoming more universally accessible and overall education is increasing. This causes a larger proportion of the population to be interested in getting PhDs and also to be qualified (academically) to do so. Similarly, to stand out in the job market, some people may be getting PhDs to differentiate themselves from people with masters/bachelors (or equivalents), since there are so many people with these degrees now.

2. A university spends less money on salaries by having a small number of professors with huge labs and armies of PhDs rather than a larger number of professors: a graduate student will work for 10-25% of a professor's salary, and without tenure. Maintaining this ratio requires having many more graduate students than professors, but doesn't give those graduate students anywhere to go when they graduate.

3. PhD programs are often used an immigration tool rather than as preparation for academia. Many PhD students I worked with were getting PhDs so that they could emigrate from India/Pakistan/China to the US and get a well-paying job. I'm sure a similar phenomenon occurs in the UK.

4. Research spending hasn't caught up with the increasing number of PhDs.

5. Because of the research boom in the post world-war period (this occurred in the US as well), most people getting academic jobs around then were around the same age. Many of these people haven't retired yet, and they may subconsciously have introduced a new part of academic culture: you need to be old before you get a professorship.

6. Many students graduate with PhDs but without having done significant enough research to merit continuing in academia. This could have a variety of causes: publish or perish, admitting unqualified/unmotivated candidates, the academic "low-hanging fruit" getting harder to research with time.

Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by cupscale on Sunday October 01, 2017 @05:41PM (#15379983)
> A university spends less money on salaries by having a small number of professors with huge labs and armies of PhDs rather than a larger number of professors

It's also worth pointing out that this is pretty necessary from the lab's point of view, especially in some of the more high-end labs: PIs (in my experience, anyway) are frequently spending >90% of their time just writing grant proposals and dealing with the funding side of things.

There's very little time for them to do anything besides the funding circuit, and so the actual research part falls to graduate students and postdocs: People who obviously have less experience as professional researchers (and thus many more of them are required).

Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by dalbasal on Sunday October 01, 2017 @05:43PM (#15379990)
no. 2 sounds sufficient, if we want to roll it all into one. If we take PHD to be a, apprenticeship for the academic trade, you can't have that apprentices- tradesmen ratio. ..not unless people are going to be apprentices for a long time.

Universities decide this ratio. It's self contained. We can either have a different ratio, the current issues, or an exponential professor crisis that'd make brontitall look like childsplay

Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by zzz95 on Sunday October 01, 2017 @08:17PM (#15380712)
>>3. PhD programs are often used an immigration tool rather than as preparation for academia. Many PhD students I worked with were getting PhDs so that they could emigrate from India/Pakistan/China to the US and get a well-paying job. I'm sure a similar phenomenon occurs in the UK.

I don't think this is true at all. Why do PhD (4-6yrs+), when a MS is enough to find a job and get an H1-B/GC ??

Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by opportune on Sunday October 01, 2017 @08:31PM (#15380786)
Well for starters, an MS in the US may cost $40k-$60k/ year for a foreign student (as funding is very hard to get for an MS student), whereas during a PhD you'll get paid about $20-25k/year. Also, many universities do not offer MS programs in more academic fields, or if they do, they do not allocate them many spots in the graduate program compared to PhD students.

This fits my personal experience as well. All of the foreign students I know who did MS's in the US were very wealthy, whereas only some of the foreign students doing PhDs were.

Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by auganov on Monday October 02, 2017 @05:33AM (#15382646)
While not enough in of itself, a PhD will greatly increase your chances of getting an O-1. Which is much more attractive than an H-1B. Also, remember that H-1Bs from India and China have to wait for many many years before they can get their GCs. Hardly worth it.
Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by PunchTornado on Sunday October 01, 2017 @05:31PM (#15379928)
In the UK it is rare that PhD students are funded to do their research.
Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by chrisseaton on Sunday October 01, 2017 @05:34PM (#15379939)
This thread is full of bizarre mis-information. I have never heard of a PhD student in the UK who was not funded. Most get around £13k tax-free and don't have to pay tuition. I didn't even have to teach, and I had a company fund my last year as an employee even.
Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by ichadade on Sunday October 01, 2017 @05:38PM (#15379969)
I second the above. I'm about to finish my PhD and within the entire department, I only know of one guy who was self funded. The rest of us all have grants that cover both tuition fees and a tax free stipend which, unless you live in London, is ok.
Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by opportune on Sunday October 01, 2017 @05:35PM (#15379945)
I looked it up and I'm seeing that it still costs about 6k pounds or less per year. Is there a program designed to provide easy/guaranteed credit to PhD students?

To me it seems really bizarre to charge this amount because it only seems enough to keep out poor or financially unstable people (for the UK), without conferring much financial benefit to the university.

Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by jamessb on Sunday October 01, 2017 @06:10PM (#15380155)
Most students never see this fee, because they receive funding that pays it directly as well as paying them a stipend.

There are various funders - the largest is the government (via Research Councils UK), but universities also provide a limited number of scholarships, as do charities like Cancer research UK or the Welcome Trust.

The tuition fees are limited by what the funding agencies are willing to pay: e.g. for 2017/18, the EPSRC has an 'indicative fee level' of £4,195 (and a national mimum stipend of £14,553 paid to the student) [1].

> Is there a program designed to provide easy/guaranteed credit to PhD students?

Not really: banks do not consider the stipend to be a salary, so when assesing loans treat PhD students as if they had no income at all.

[1]: http://www.rcuk.ac.uk/skills/training/

Re:A glut of PhDs who can’t find academic jobs by opportune on Sunday October 01, 2017 @06:38PM (#15380283)
This is about what I figured. In the US PhD programs have a nominal cost but it's almost always waived. In effect graduate students usually make about $20k/year