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Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by tpeo on Thursday September 28, 2017 @12:43PM (#15358612)
You know, that's a problem too. I mean, I take that 90% of jobs aren't specialized positions. Once you need a college degree for a position that only requires general skills, or in which the employee can do just fine on-the-job training and experience, then what are those years in college for exactly?

As far as I know, people could get by with a high school degree in the 1970s: there was no significant wage difference between a high school graduate and a college graduate, and both faced similar rates of unemployment. Nowadays employers take for granted that candidates must have some form of qualification, even for positions that don't seem to require it. Has the quality of education fallen and the grades been inflated to such a point where degrees are no longer reliable signals of productivity?

Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by HyperboleRocks on Thursday September 28, 2017 @01:38PM (#15359171)
What's the best way to ensure employee loyalty? Make sure they're saddled with mountains of crippling debt so they can't afford to quit!

And why should companies have their HR departments thoroughly vet candidates when they can rely on the college admissions process to do it for them?

Free vetting AND loyal slave... uh... I mean... employees! Who could say no to that!?

Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by dsr_ on Thursday September 28, 2017 @12:49PM (#15358681)
Degrees are not reliable signals of productivity.

I would much rather hire someone who didn't finish college but has had five years of progressive responsibility in the right area, than someone who had just finished a four or five year degree course but had never worked.

Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by Sacho on Friday September 29, 2017 @03:31AM (#15363438)
But does the progressive responsibility ladder exist for a high school graduate? Can they start their career in a job, even at an internship level?

I think you can tease out three possible factors influencing the situation here:

- more people graduating, more supply, means that even entry-level jobs are flooded with college graduates - entry-level jobs in decline, either due to automation or companies just not interested in providing apprenticeships - student loans shifting the power dynamics between employer/employee; you're more pressed to get a job, any job, so you're more likely to take up positions where you're overqualified and underpaid

These scenarios all form positive feedback loops to each other; with more high-skilled worker supply in the market, companies can grow their non-entry level jobs while automating the low-level ones; this reduction in entry jobs means that the desperate college students compete more fiercely with high school students, raising the bar for entry level jobs; the raised bar for entry level jobs forces more high school students to go into college rather than start work, which saddles them with student debt, feeding into the cycle.

I've noticed that many social situations tend to end up in such vicious, entangled circles. My dad used to call these the "downward spiral of failure" and the "upward spiral of success", and I really don't know how you transition from one to the other without a monumental effort or some kind of miracle breakthrough.

Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by tpeo on Thursday September 28, 2017 @12:58PM (#15358766)
I didn't say they were. They aren't, that's the issue. A college degree overshoots the level of qualification necessary for a general skills job and comes short of the qualification necessary for a specialized position.

Also, your crosswise comparison between an experienced candidate without a degree and an inexperienced candidate with a degree only tells me that you put more weight into experience than having a degree. It really doesn't tell me much about whether a degree is a good signal, but only that it's worse than experience. Now, if you had told me that you don't consider whether a candidate has a degree at all then I'd be able to infer that they are terrible signals and carry no information at all.

Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by dsr_ on Thursday September 28, 2017 @01:49PM (#15359289)
I said what I meant: they're not reliable signals.

You've got a space of time in a person's life between, presumably, graduating high school and sending you a resume. What did they do with that time?

Merely having a degree doesn't say much.

Merely not having a degree doesn't say much.

Having an honors BS in CS from CMU, MIT, Stanford, or a bunch of other schools implies academic competence and exposure to a certain range of ideas. But I don't know that they can be productive outside of that environment.

Having an ordinary BS in a STEM subject from a random college that I've never heard of means even less to me. But is it zero? No.

Holding down a job for those four years is a signal, too, and it needs evaluation. What kind of job? While living at home? Did anything progress during that time? Is it relevant to what we're trying to hire for?

Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by saint_fiasco on Thursday September 28, 2017 @04:32PM (#15360477)
For most people, college education funges against job experience. It's hard to work full time while also being a college student.
Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by trentmb on Thursday September 28, 2017 @02:12PM (#15359481)
> then what are those years in college for exactly?

A proxy for an IQ test?

Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by kazinator on Thursday September 28, 2017 @08:00PM (#15361765)
Nope! They are an indicator to work at a fairly long-term goal fairly diligently, and jump through various hoops.
Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by Danihan on Thursday September 28, 2017 @02:51PM (#15359773)
Just ask for SAT scores..
Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by Danihan on Thursday September 28, 2017 @12:46PM (#15358639)
Exactly. If no domain specific skills are needed and a general education is good enough, then a high school diploma should have sufficed anyway.
Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by gthtjtkt on Thursday September 28, 2017 @12:55PM (#15358745)
Exactly this. The problem here is wanting to be a tenured professor, not having an English degree.
Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by hyperbolerules on Thursday September 28, 2017 @01:05PM (#15358853)
it’s a good rule of thumb that punching up your argument with ridiculous emotionally resonant hyperbole makes your logic seem really, really strong.
Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by gthtjtkt on Thursday September 28, 2017 @01:19PM (#15358990)
It's a good rule of thumb that comments necessitating a new throwaway account aren't worth making.
Re:Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping i... by omginternets on Thursday September 28, 2017 @01:27PM (#15359073)
And yet, he's 100% right.