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Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by hexadecimated on Friday September 22, 2017 @05:08PM (#15315816)
Such hideously wasteful extravagance, and how sad that these people who are already absurdly rich are still greedy for more.
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by zdragnar on Friday September 22, 2017 @06:53PM (#15316641)
Buying a jet creates high paying, skilled jobs which support families, their children's education, and so forth. The downstream effect from the purchase includes the pilot, the airport expenses, maintenance crew, and the taxes on the expenses and all of those salaries.

Not a cent of the money is in any way wasted.

I'm reminded of the Maryland luxury tax, which allegedly crippled their boat building industry and put a lot of middle class people out of their jobs. I say allegedly because I remember the story, not the source that confirmed that there weren't other coinciding factors.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by Retric on Friday September 22, 2017 @09:54PM (#15317581)
May I suggest you read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

Fuel and depreciation is simply wealth being destroyed.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by johnsonjo on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:24PM (#15317691)
No, I don't believe fuel and depreciation are being destroyed. I think that is the difference between this situation and the broken window parable. They are simply being traded for a service to arrive at destinations swiftly. If we judge purely off opportunity cost the billionaire's time is worth a lot more than the average layman. The extra cost in the goods and services of a private jet may very well be worth the expense to the billionaire.
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by Retric on Saturday September 23, 2017 @06:47AM (#15319155)
Renting a jet to get from A > B is no slower. But, it's a lot cheaper and the difference in costs is not a net economic benifit.
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by zdragnar on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:12PM (#15317860)
Fuel and depreciation are only destroyed wealth if there is no lost opportunity by not purchasing them, and that entertainment alone is not a sufficiently worthy value.

Presuming so would also argue that the majority of human endeavor is also waste; everything from entertaining TV shows to having small animals as pets to music lessons to trips to private space flight to works of fiction.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by mlevental on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:04PM (#15317619)
umm that is literally the opposite of broken window fallacy
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by perl4ever on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:28PM (#15317704)
It certainly seems like an example of the broken window fallacy to me. Invoking the creation of jobs to refute the claim of wasting labor is the same illogical argument. It's just redefining bad as good and pretending it is an argument. Jobs are not a scarce resource. Labor is a scarce resource. Capital is a scarce resource. Instead of making cake for the rich, a baker may instead make bread for the poor.
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by brbsix on Saturday September 23, 2017 @12:25AM (#15318101)
Making cake for the rich isn't an example of the broken window fallacy either, and I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Cash for clunkers is an example of the fallacy, operating a vehicle (be it a car or jet) for work/pleasure is not.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by adventured on Friday September 22, 2017 @07:06PM (#15316745)
> Such hideously wasteful extravagance

You're moralizing the issue, which points to the fact that most of what you said is nothing more than a personal subjective judgement. For someone with that wealth, it's not usually going to be a wasteful extravagance at all.

Billionaires are like large corporations unto themselves. Their business interests are of the scale of small companies in the S&P 500.

Take Patterson Companies, an S&P 500 company, among the smallest with a $3.4 billion market cap. $3.4 billion in wealth isn't enough to get you onto the Bloomberg global richest 500 list.

By contrast, Henry Kravis of KKR fame, is worth $5.x billion (merely #345 on the billionaire list). It makes perfect sense for someone with his large business interests to utilize a personal jet for optimization of time. It's about as wasteful as an average person in the developed world owning a car. Oh those average people in the developed world, living that luxurious extravagant life in which they own a car (or a home, gasp!).

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by hexadecimated on Saturday September 23, 2017 @09:23PM (#15322734)
> most of what you said is nothing more than a personal subjective judgement

Indeed it was, I was offering my own considered opinion, not some absolute universal truth.

No surprise such opinions don't go down favourably on HN though. Amidst all the interesting technical and scientific discussion, there are disappointing overtones of wealth worship, and a weird cult-like following of billionaire entrepreneurs.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by T2_t2 on Friday September 22, 2017 @05:35PM (#15316056)
Not really. Buffett bought a jet, after calling it indefensible for years, and actually named it The Indefensible.

I reckon it is a good investment for many CEOs. There time is worth FAR MORE to their companies than whatever a jet costs to run, the saved time is invaluable as is the clarity that comes with better conditions when flying.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by CalChris on Saturday September 23, 2017 @12:40AM (#15318144)
Buffett, yes. But I remember talking to a group secretary who'd been an executive secretary in the Dot Com heyday. She flew to Paris on the Concorde for bi-weekly meetings.

Cuz it was important.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by eschutte2 on Friday September 22, 2017 @07:53PM (#15317019)
A major advantage to buying a jet is depreciation.
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by dwaltrip on Friday September 22, 2017 @06:54PM (#15316648)
How much time does owning a jet actually save?
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by bilbobagends on Friday September 22, 2017 @06:58PM (#15316683)
Door to door from NYC to NC is about 4hrs best case commercial and 2hrs private (Teterboro). Longer distance saves less as a percentage.
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by karthikb on Friday September 22, 2017 @07:06PM (#15316747)
It's not just door to door time, but schedule flexibility. Not every route has a direct flight, multiple flights per day, etc.

Many people schedule meetings to end right before they have to leave for the airport and catch the last flight back home for another important meeting the next day. Would prefer that someone making decisions impacting the livelihoods of thousands of people each day is focused on the issue at hand, not catching the next flight.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by sjg007 on Friday September 22, 2017 @07:59PM (#15317063)
Because video conferencing is so 1990s
Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by sokoloff on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:07PM (#15317112)
I am a [piston-engine] pilot (only use mine for business a few times/year; most is personal/family travel). However, I spend a lot of time with other entrepreneur pilots and many believe that their airplane is instrumental in their business.

Being able to show up, in-person, walk around, shake hands, interview the customer, look them in the eye, walk their factory floor or otherwise see things first hand and then still make it home to put the kids in bed is far more impression setting than dialing into a video call.

What little I've used mine for business, being able to be out and back the same day, direct, makes it more likely that I'll bother to show up (vs call or visit annually). Video conferences are better than phone calls, but a poor substitute for an in-person visit.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by bartread on Saturday September 23, 2017 @08:23AM (#15319422)
Because video conferencing, at least the kind that most of us can afford without specialist equipment, is still annoyingly unreliable in 2017.

Not saying every meeting has technical issues, or even most of them, but some do and finding a technology that everyone who needs to be in the meeting can use given different corporate standards is a PITA.

It's still also no substitute for meeting face to face over the long term.

Re:Ask HN: Sell my startup for $14M because I can't raise $2M? by bilbobagends on Friday September 22, 2017 @06:56PM (#15316665)
He changed the name to the Indispensable.