News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by StavrosK on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:13AM (#15294622)
> Frameworks don't rust.

Ah, the optimism of youth. Frameworks don't rust if you don't mind sticking with the security bugs of 10-year-old kernels. If you need to upgrade your OS, you need to upgrade your programming languages, which means you need to upgrade your frameworks.

Everything rusts pretty quickly. Maybe you don't need the new features, but you definitely need the new bugfixes.

Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by gtsteve on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:34PM (#15295652)
You make a good point, although I was exclusively referring to front-end JS frameworks. Of course you'd want to update Spring, .NET and whatever else you're using due to vulnerabilities.

But to the point you were making - it's not impossible that browsers could evolve to the point where our current version of React is unusable and it's been long relegated to the buzzword graveyard. Of course in that situation we'd have to maintain our own React branch or rewrite in whatever was a popular front-end framework at the time.

My point is that getting stressed out about the front-end JS framework churn isn't helpful to anyone. Pick a stack and stick with it, and only move when it's simply not productive to stay.

Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by amelius on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:16AM (#15294665)
The problem is that everybody publishes bugfixes alongside new features. This practice should be stopped, because it leads to dependency hell.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by eropple on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:25AM (#15294781)
Open-source maintainers should totally leverage this opportunity to make their projects sustainable. Sell your backports. Enterprises want them.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by Spivak on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:06PM (#15295304)
I work at one such large org. We would pay good money for a 5 year support contract for a fixed version of a framework getting backported security (and maybe a few feature) updates.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by eropple on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:15PM (#15295422)
Shoot me an email with details? Like I said in a sibling, this is a project I'm digging into. Email's in my profile.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by rattray on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:37AM (#15294936)
That actually sounds like an interesting business model.

What form would the transaction take?

Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by eropple on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:09PM (#15295367)
"Here are the keys to a private artifact repo. We will update N major/minor/whatever versions."

I am low-key building a marketplace for this, because this really should exist. The problem, as a marketplace, is identifying projects both important enough that people will pay for it and aren't* already functionally owned by a company that has a vested interest in their own project management.

(Are you a maintainer who's interested in something like this? Are there projects you would pay for this for? I want to hear from you. com dot edropple at ed)

Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by j_s on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:09PM (#15295366)
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by amelius on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:58AM (#15295223)
Yes, and how would maintainers know which versions of their software are actually still used?
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by ebiester on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:45PM (#15295778)
You mark releases as "Stable and supported" and have corporations subscribe against releases. If you are subscribed to a release, you get bug fixes for that release. If someone does not have a subscription to a release, it does not get updated, and if there is no current subscription for that release, you don't accept new ones.

You always allow people to move forward their subscriptions, but never backwards. You provide migration paths for each supported release.

People will pay for it.

Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by saosebastiao on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:05PM (#15295297)
The problem with publishing bugfixes separate from new features is that you end up with an ever expanding tree to maintain, and you eventually run into problems where bugs become intertwined with features and the right thing to do is extremely hard.

It's a little much to ask from an unpaid open source maintainer, and if you really want it that bad you should be willing to pay for it. Companies like Red Hat have made a living off of people willing to make that tradeoff.

Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by gras on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:20AM (#15294709)
It's either that or backporting bugfixes to every single past release, right? Is that what you propose? Or a "middle way" with LTS releases?

I mean, you could have separate bugfix and feature releases for a relatively low cost, but that would only alleviate the problem for the duration of a release cycle.

Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by blktiger on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:31AM (#15294858)
This is why you should choose a frontend framework with a LTS (long-term support) program. (For example, Angular 4 or Ember.) You don't have to upgrade to the latest version of the framework, just the latest LTS version which will have all the relevant bug/security fixes. Only when the framework starts to drop support for the LTS version do you have to deal with upgrading and learning whatever new features they have added since then.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by tobltobs on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:57AM (#15295211)
Maybe it is worth to add that a LTS release in JS land isn't what non JS developers would expect. LTS releases with support for 6 months? Seriously?
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by Spivak on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:07PM (#15295328)
For comparison Red Hat supports their servers for a minimum of 10 years and you can buy extended support after that.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by Cacti on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:14PM (#15295410)
6 months for v.4, then 1 year. Which is still absurdly short. That's not even long enough for sane, normal versioning (e.g. Python 2.6 through 2.6.9 was like 5+ years). These people are crazy.
Re:JavaScript development is not fun for me anymore by blktiger on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @03:26PM (#15297340)
For Ember at least, the LTS is 4 releases, however all versions are backwards compatible up to the point at which they bump the major version. So you can just keep upgrading whiteout changing code for potentially years.