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Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by justinmk on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @04:17PM (#15288414)
> A distributed web with many small nodes would still be hard to control and police effectively.

I would guess that today's distributed web (IPFS, etc.) has more content, and users, than the "wild web" of 1992 or whatever era you fondly recollect.

Yes, centralized players created tools that produced exponentially more content (and control). But it's lazy to blame that peripheral phenomenon for a perceived "loss".

The wild web still exists, and has the potential to grow (cf. Urbit). What's stopping it?

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by cookiecaper on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @04:48PM (#15288668)
IPFS is stopped by its insistence on things that are considered anti-features by non-cryptopunks, like immutability.

There's a lot of promise behind the "distributed web" or "P2P web" prototypes, but they haven't been effectively commoditized, and their value proposition over the top-level "spyweb" isn't strong enough for normal users who don't understand the inner workings. In fact, they tend to offer less end-user benefit, since a P2P web is necessarily slower as peers negotiate connections, deal with vaporizing peers, etc.

Consumers care only about getting their desires fulfilled as quickly and easily as possible. If you want a new web to dominate, you must make something that gives the consumers and/or the companies upstream from them an incentive to exert the effort to change.

Personally, I believe the web is already sufficiently "decentralized" in the necessary sense. We just have legal restrictions that prevent true competition with the tech conglomerates, as they're allowed to effectively claim exclusive domain over all user-generated content.

There's no reason I shouldn't be able to go to NewGoog or NewFace and multiplex in the available data streams hosted by the web nodes at google.com and facebook.com, except that this violates the CFAA and the Copyright Act, and Google and Facebook can and will sue you to make you stop. This is the primary constraint that has led to the recentralization of the web.

What do you expect when you make it a crime to send any type of undesired communication to a server? The CFAA doesn't just prevent harmful or disruptive access, but all unauthorized access. In practice, this is almost always used to stymie small innovators who are putting the data from a data source like Facebook to better use.

This is fundamentally anti-competitive, and again, it's no wonder that the web is coalescing into the hands of a few central controllers. It has never been more apparent that the user is the product being sold and peddled.

We need to reorient our perspective of the internet with users, not services, as the central entity, and give them full control over the data that they generate. Then, the user will be free again, without the need for complex P2P solutions.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by StavrosK on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:04PM (#15289761)
I don't know, I think IPFS has at least a good few use cases. For example, it's great for posting censorship-resistant content, and I wrote something to do just that: http://ipfessay.stavros.io/

There are also things like OpenBazaar and a whole host of other applications running on IPFS that are quite useful. Sure, it may not be mainstream, but nothing starts out being mainstream.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by didip on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:33PM (#15289882)
I have always wondered about IPFS and its relationship with DNS.

What's stopping authoritarian entity from poisoning/redirecting ipfs.io to static page?

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by detaro on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:39PM (#15289895)
Nothing, but that would hopefully primarily encourage people to set up IPFS clients themselves instead of relying on the public bridge.

(Which is IMHO one of the weaknesses of IPFS, that they haven't made that more prominent/easier, through browser plugins or a dedicated IPFS-browser. Compare to e.g. the publicity boost Dat got from Beaker Browser)

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by StavrosK on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:50PM (#15289938)
This is a very nice Chrome extension:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ipfs-station/kckhg...

It'll redirect all IPFS URLs to your local daemon.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by detaro on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:56PM (#15289962)
Ohh, interesting, that seems to have most of the things I was looking for. Not sure why I missed it when I went looking for one recently. Thanks!
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by StavrosK on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @09:15PM (#15290033)
No problem, I had missed it too but someone here pointed me to it. I wish we had one for Firefox as well!
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by throwanem on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @05:53AM (#15292044)
What stops that one from running in Firefox? I haven't dug into its code, but nothing in its description or screenshots looks like the FF web extension implementation shouldn't support it. I mean, it's just a little chrome, a content script doing link rewrites, and an occasional HTTP request to fetch status info, yeah?
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by StavrosK on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @06:52AM (#15292326)
Nothing stops it, I guess it's just that nobody has bothered to make one yet. It's works exactly as you describe, though, pretty simple.
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by throwanem on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @07:11AM (#15292435)
https://www.ghacks.net/2016/05/23/install-google-chrome-exte... might be worth a look. Haven't tried it, but the claim is that it mechanically transforms Chrome extension metadata and containers into Firefox's formats, and supports automatic signing via AMO for permanent installation. Assuming that, the rest should Just Work modulo possibly still incomplete WebEx API support in Firefox. If you try it, I wouldn't mind hearing how you get on.
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by StavrosK on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @02:44PM (#15296957)
Holy hell, it just worked! That's amazing, thank you for that. I bet it helps that the extension is just redirecting and collecting stats, but everything seems to work fine!
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by throwanem on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @03:16PM (#15297236)
That's great to hear! Most welcome, and glad to know there's a plausible option - with the rapid deprecation of the old API, this might save a lot of time. (I can't rely on replacing all my old extensions with shell oneliners, after all...)
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by StavrosK on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:50PM (#15289942)
Nothing, but what does it matter? There are loads of public gateways. I run one at https://www.eternum.io. Also, running your own node is trivial.
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by mirimir on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:55AM (#15290952)
It's pretty trivial to run an IPFS gateway as a Tor hidden service. Also IPFS branches into Tor OnionCat's IPv6 /64. And nodes that link resources between clearnet and OnionCat /64. Or any other overlay network.
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by Gaelan on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:26PM (#15289855)
IPNS is a layer on top of IPFS that allows mutability.