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Re:Demon-Haunted World by zackmorris on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @06:58PM (#15179787)
Startup idea:

Form a company that explores new markets in legal liabilities. It could bring lawsuits with little risk where the payoff could be billions of dollars. Off the top of my head:

* Research whether channels were engineered into smartphones to allow water to leak in (since they have no moving parts and should self-evidently be watertight).

* Find the planned-obsolescence parts in things like car doors that were engineered too thin or out of plastic so that door and window handles fail after a certain number of uses.

* Find evidence that companies opted to use proprietary battery and charger form factors which drove up prices and prevented interoperability.

...the list is nearly endless. Most of these seem like they depend on research or whistleblowers. If the free market and regulations won't prevent this kind of widespread hacking then maybe lucrative opportunities could be found working within the courts!

Re:Demon-Haunted World by wyager on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @09:43PM (#15180558)
That's not remotely how waterproofing works. Getting any meaningful degree of ingress protection is hard. It requires entirely different assembly techniques and is generally contrary to user serviceability.

Proprietary batteries are the reason thin electronics exist. You can't use 18650s to make a MacBook.

I think the problem here is that you vastly underestimate how hard manufacturing is. The things you're proposing are like me trying to sue Facebook because it crashes all the time. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it because they're actively trying to subvert me for nefarious reasons? No, it's just because they don't know how to do it better in a reasonable price range.

Re:Demon-Haunted World by tftjfjtft on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @10:37PM (#15180797)
No one thinks its free of any effort. But $10 wrist watches claim 100m waterproof (whatever 100m means in watch land). All I want is my phone's screen not to mess up when if my buddy pushes me into the pool. 2 ft of water for 10 seconds. That's it.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by pjc50 on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @07:14AM (#15182717)
Behold the $75 claimed waterproof phone: https://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_602673.html
Re:Demon-Haunted World by msh on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @03:26AM (#15181822)
You can get several phones that offer that.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by anyfoo on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @07:22PM (#15179892)
Minor nitpick: Speakers and microphones are moving parts. The speaker has even been used to expel water.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by keville on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @08:30PM (#15180218)
Not a minor nitpick at all. Physical buttons are also moving parts.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by tftjfjtft on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @10:32PM (#15180770)
Please, these things are not mechanical watches, which have been able accompany divers for literally centuries.

Speakers are trivially sealed, as are buttons. They are just a fancy electromagnet, or piezoelectric crystal.

Also both can work through induction potentially keeping them outside a "pressure chamber" and forgoing sealing altogether. Although I just want the steam of my shower not to mess up with my phone, not dive 100 m with it.

Re:Demon-Haunted World by sliken on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @08:43PM (#15180272)
Not to mention headphone ports, usb ports, and charging ports. Also most phones have a vibrate function which uses an electric motor.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by middleorigin on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @09:49PM (#15180588)
Wait, ports are considered moving parts?
Re:Demon-Haunted World by pjc50 on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @07:12AM (#15182710)
Yes. Connectors like USB and headphones consist of metal "fingers" in a plastic insulating shell, perhaps with an outer metal shell. The contacts are sprung and need to move. So the simplest, most natural implementation has gaps around the contacts. There's also usually a thin gap between the connector on the PCB and the outer casing of the phone. If you want it sealed you have to add gaskets everywhere during assembly.

Not to mention sockets for SIM and SD cards. If you can take the back off the whole phone to change the battery, that makes it a lot harder.

Quite a few phones are waterproof or splashproof : http://www.techradar.com/news/best-waterproof-phone

Exact meaning of ingress protection "IP" ratings: http://www.dsmt.com/resources/ip-rating-chart/

Or if you want something cheaper: https://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_602673.html

Re:Demon-Haunted World by LeoPanthera on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @10:00PM (#15180624)
Many ports, and notably headphone jacks, have springy pieces of metal inside to clamp onto the plug. This is what causes scratchy audio when you wiggle the plug in old devices, the clamping force has weakened.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by marcosdumay on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @10:17PM (#15180702)
Don't things move inside them? They are pretty hard to make water tight.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by function_seven on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @09:37PM (#15180533)
> Find the planned-obsolescence parts in things like car doors that were engineered too thin or out of plastic so that door and window handles fail after a certain number of uses.

There’s no way in hell car companies are purposely under-engineering things to cause them to break. That damages the brand reputation, and will drive the next sale to a competitor.

Yes, they make engineering tradeoffs. No, they don’t design a part with the specific intention that it will fail earlier than a comparable (cost-wise) design would.

Re:Demon-Haunted World by selimthegrim on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @09:59PM (#15180623)
Re:Demon-Haunted World by function_seven on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @10:41PM (#15180813)
There are a lot of examples like this. That timing gear in your linked article is one example. The rear emblem (and trunk key cover) on a 90’s Nissan Altima is another one. They have all fallen off by now. Crappy pot metal?

Either way, it wasn’t intentionally designed to do that. There was no engineer that said, “Hey, let’s juice our parts revenue in 5 years by making this hinge really weak.”

EDIT: Thanks for that article, though. I could see myself getting suckered into a good deal on a Benz. Now I know why the price is so low.

Re:Demon-Haunted World by rb666 on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @10:17PM (#15180704)
That's just rubbish engineering, not planned-obsolescence.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by Tsagadai on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @11:51PM (#15181075)
Watertight is a hard engineering problem to solve. If it isn't a vacuum or loaded with some other gas then you will get water coming in because of temperature cycles causing the device to act like a pump, which in a phone are a problem because you will have temperature fluctuations caused by charging, usage and environment.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by taberiand on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @02:00AM (#15181544)
And even if that argument wasn't true, it doesn't have to be - it just has to convince the court that it is.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by TeMPOraL on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @12:49AM (#15181309)
Reminds me of an idea from the novel "Makers", by the very same Cory Doctorow, in which there's a mass VC-funded lawsuit against a particular known media megacorp.
Re:Demon-Haunted World by mholmes680 on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @07:33PM (#15179951)
Devil's advocate here... I would have hoped the opportunities were so lucrative that whistleblowers would have already, eh, blown the whistle. That's exactly the point of the whistleblower's protection laws.

So maybe these things aren't as widespread as you'd think... at least not in a legal sense. I'd also like to think that maybe people aren't "designing" flaws into things rather than finding the maximum economic benefit, or just are "naive" to what they design.

Re:Demon-Haunted World by fouc on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @07:40PM (#15179991)
Re:Demon-Haunted World by spitfire on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @07:26PM (#15179914)
> Form a company that explores new markets in legal liabilities. It could bring lawsuits with little risk where the payoff could be billions of dollars.

Sort of like a patent troll, but for good? I do like it.

Re:Demon-Haunted World by screature2 on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @07:53PM (#15180056)
I believe that patent trolls do this for IP.

I think there's always a danger of having this type of litigation be abused (in this case I'm also thinking of drive-by litigation around the Disabilities Act etc.)

edit aww spitfire beat me to the patent troll punch.