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Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by Mediterraneo10 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @02:52AM (#15130152)
It has nothing to do with the 24/192 values themselves, but rather the treatment given to the recording during the mastering. Because 24/192 and SACD are "audiophile formats", the engineers who master the recordings expect them to be listened to in serious listening environments that are relatively noise-insulated so that very soft parts can be heard clearly, and there are no complaining neighbours so the loud parts can really blast. Consequently, an ample dynamic range is preserved.

"Remastered" reissues on the other formats – CD or lower-bitrate downloads – are nowadays expected to be listened to through cheap earbuds or speakers and perhaps in noisy urban environments. So, the engineer applies "loudness wars" treatment, compressing their dynamic range so the listener can still hear the quiet parts even with all the noise around them.

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by aw3c2 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @03:12AM (#15130228)
You are proving the point. Treating the audio well, not giving in to the loudness, has only correlation with 24/192 releases (if you say so), there is no causation.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by Mediterraneo10 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @03:27AM (#15130286)
Sure, there is no causation of "higher bitrate necessarily makes for better sound", but the correlation of "higher bitrate format just happens to have better mastering" is often strong enough to make these the go-to formats. There are a large number of classic recordings that are difficult to obtain in the digital era without harsh compression being applied to them, so the 24/192 or SACD release is the most convenient way of hearing them with decent dynamic range.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by JohnBooty on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @08:06AM (#15131405)
Right, absolutely. 16 bit samples give 100db+ of perceived dynamic range, more than would ever be needed.

The other poster is not saying otherwise, though. They're just saying that "hi-def" formats, while technically unnecessary for end-user listening, are often the only way to obtain a decently-mastered recording.

There's no technical reason for things to be that way. But that's how things are.

It's sort of like buying a new car. You want the more powerful engine? Well then you also have to buy the package with heated seats, the moonroof, and the fog lights. There's no technical reason for it, but that's the only way they'll sell it to you.

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by ladzoppelin on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @01:24PM (#15134061)
But there is a technical reason for them as the tools used to master/make music work better at the higher formats. Its not "superstition" its digital audio.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by JohnBooty on Saturday September 02, 2017 @08:47AM (#15155699)
Of course. That's why I specifically said "end-user listening."

It's also what this entire discussion's about.

Of course formats above 44.1/16 are useful for professional work; nobody's ever said otherwise. Just like graphics professionals work with high-res images and lossless formats even if the end product is a .jpg on a web page.

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by aw3c2 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @02:35PM (#15134723)
Yes, but this is about Music Downloads.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by traviscj on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @04:32AM (#15130582)
In other words, it is not a technical advantage, but a social/political one.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by Steve44 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @05:15AM (#15130732)
> It has nothing to do with the 24/192 values themselves, but rather the treatment given to the recording during the mastering

I noticed a similar thing with TV a few years ago. Despite watching a standard def. channel on a SD TV some programmes had a very noticeably better image quality. I think these had been shot and edited in HD and although the 'last mile' was still in SD there had been less degradation in the processing so the final picture was much better.

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by colejohnson66 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @05:22AM (#15130771)
It’s the same reason downsampling 4K to 1080p looks better than shooting in 1080p.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by anentropic on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @07:22AM (#15131193)
this is roughly what the "Mastered for iTunes" badge means on iTunes downloads

the mastering engineer has to be approved and there are some minimum dynamic range standards

also 24 bit (but not 192khz) master files have to be supplied

reportedly some of the streaming services (Spotify, YouTube) are now applying some 'loudness normalisation' which will bring some of the bad loud masters into line (it won't restore their dynamic range but will make them similar loudness to other tracks)

the loudness wars were never about what's good for listeners, but rather a competition for tracks to sound louder than other people's tracks when played consecutively on radio or in your music player

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by rplst8 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @08:35AM (#15131557)
Mastering for "high fidelity" 24-bit audio on iTunes is an oxymoron. The compression algorithms used for AAC and MP3 are going to the worsen the sound quality in a manner that renders the extended dynamic range of 24-bit audio is useless.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by anentropic on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @10:38AM (#15132450)
even on mp3s where the bitrate is low enough to hear some compression artefacts you would still be able to perceive the difference in dynamic range

and the iTunes files are 256 kbps AACs, you can't hear the compression

remember that 'compression' in this context is data compression and not audio compression (which acts directly on the dynamic range of the source)

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by rplst8 on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @02:48PM (#15134822)
> the iTunes files are 256 kbps AACs, you can't hear the compression

I can most certainly hear the compression when compared with CD digital audio.

I fully understand the difference between data compression and dynamic range (not audio) compression.

What I'm saying is, lossy data compressed audio formats are already compromised enough to rule it out as a medium for audiophile use. Worrying about the dynamic range at that point is moot. It's going to be played on tiny, terrible sounding speakers.

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by tripzilch on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @04:53PM (#15135903)
> I can most certainly hear the compression when compared with CD digital audio.

with 256kbps AAC, really? yeah MP3 is old and even at 320kbps it throws away everything above 18kHz (which I can't hear personally, but some people can). However AAC is newer and better and blows MP3 out of the water (so do OGG and OPUS, btw). We got a lot better at psychoacoustics since MP3 started out. I strongly doubt you could hear it in a proper A/B test.

Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by titzer on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @05:43AM (#15130847)
With the higher 24 bit resolution, would it not be possible for someone to "decompress" the dynamic range with less distortion than 16 bit?
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by emerged on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @07:06AM (#15131132)
No, compression can't be undone. It destroys information. Especially with a limiter. The mastering chain will have typically done other things to the signal as well.
Re:24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012) by hashmal on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @06:53AM (#15131083)
Thanks for the clarification, I kinda agree.

Then, 24/192 is mostly a "weak signal" to help you estimate if the audio was treated with care.