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Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by pjmlp on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @11:43AM (#15125045)
The sad part is that they aren't serious to sort it out.

Treble could have been the solution, yet they are still allowing for OEM customizations and the OEM are the ones expected to keep pushing the updates, as discussed on the ADB Podcast.

Guess how many OEMs will choose to push Treble updates instead of selling new devices.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by jonknee on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @11:54AM (#15125145)
Software updates alone can't fix it as you can ship all sorts of hardware with Android. Apple has a known combination of hardware across its models. Even subtle differences in imaging sensors would be hard to account for.
Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by freehunter on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @05:03PM (#15127582)
It's mind-boggling how Windows Updates has been successful for decades now in the even more fragmented PC world, but Google gets a free pass because... reasons.
Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by jonknee on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @05:40PM (#15127828)
No software update in the world is going to help when there are thousands of different sensor configurations in use. Apple only has a handful and can test against all of them with ease.
Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by MBCook on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @07:12PM (#15128398)
That explains AR, what about basic android functionality being stuck because your device isn't updated?
Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by pjmlp on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @12:16PM (#15125309)
Correct.

Google could have taken the same approach as Microsoft always did since the MS-DOS days and require specific hardware expectations.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by endorphone on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @01:13PM (#15125833)
Simple explanations for complex issues (e.g. getting many vendors and layers of the vertical cooperating) are seldom of much use. Bringing up Microsoft -- they tried the whole fixed hardware thing with Windows Mobile cum Phone and failed catastrophically, always two steps behind -- is not convincing.

Android solved a very different problem than iOS. It has compromises and benefits (that iOS has enjoyed by proxy) in doing so. The OS that we know today is the combined knowledge of many OEM customizations. The hardware of a vicious battle between many vendors. The screens and designs the result of an endless tug of war. And again, Apple has enjoyed the fruits of these.

But saying "If only they..." is seldom from a place of reason.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by pjmlp on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @01:56PM (#15126212)
I have not mentioned Windows Phone on my comment.

Apparently no one at Google ever read PC hardware specifications from Microsoft like "PC 97 Hardware Design Guide" or "Hardware Design Guide for Microsoft Windows 95", among a few other hardware guides from them.

https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Design-Guide-Microsoft-Profe...

https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Design-Guide-Microsoft-Windo...

Of course the Windows Phone attempted at it failed, because by the time Microsoft tried to apply the same rules as they did on the PC hardware, OEMs already had the Android wild west to play with.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @01:43PM (#15126104)
I don't think you can judge Microsoft's approach on update management based on the failure of the platform. The platform failed because there's a monopolist in the space with an 85% market share and huge network effects regarding app development.

Microsoft hit update handling for Windows Mobile spot on. A 2014 Windows Phone today[1] is a safer bet if you value security than any Android on the market right now. May not run the apps you want, but it is going to have the latest security updates.

[1]My Lumia 929 currently is running Windows 14393.1593, released August 8th, 2017. I can safely expect to receive the next update on September 12th.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by endorphone on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @02:04PM (#15126289)
The platform failed because there's a monopolist in the space with an 85% market share and huge network effects regarding app development.

When Windows Phone 7 was released (this is ignoring that Windows CE was around for about a decade before, giving Microsoft a massive headstart), Android had about 18% of the market. Microsoft leveraged their enormous base of desktop developers, pulling them through various failed initiatives, to get them developing for Windows Phone. Android started effectively from nothing.

In the context of actual history your post is simply surreal.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @02:53PM (#15126702)
In the context of the discussion, your post doesn't make any sense. We're talking about how Windows Mobile fixed updates... which happened multiple years after Windows Phone 7. Windows 10 Mobile is the first version that doesn't handle updates through OEMs the way Google does it. (Even the stricter hardware requirements didn't really set in until Windows Phone 8.)
Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by EddieRingle on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @11:53AM (#15125128)
As I understand it, the OEM modifications will be relegated to the vendor/odm partitions. They specifically hint at being able to push new system partitions directly in the future.
Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by pjmlp on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @12:13PM (#15125290)
1 - One needs to buy a new Android 8 device.

2 - Android 7 has currently about 13% acquisition after one year

3 - There is currently no obligation for OEMs to provide updates

4 - Given the failure of security updates, only being delivered to flagship devices, I believe Google will ship them directly when they actually do it.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by EddieRingle on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @12:20PM (#15125349)
1 - Which OEMs will be pushing consumers to buy, according to you.

2 - Right, this is something Treble will attempt to solve.

3 - Which is why Google is making it as easy as possible for them to do so, right down to actually pushing out the updates for them.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by pjmlp on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @12:41PM (#15125545)
1 - I guess only Google with its rather expensive Pixel device, and probably Samsung and Huawei flagships only, in the same price category.

3 - I would really like to be proven wrong here. Still waiting for my Android 7 update on a newly bought device.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by s73ver_ on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @05:26PM (#15127741)
None of that actually seems to solve the issue of developing updates and pushing them to users, though.
Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by EddieRingle on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @09:58PM (#15129166)
Actually it does!

For example, something I was excited to see is in the updated documentation on source.android.com with regards to how they recommend developing kernel branches alongside devices: https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/kernel/modul...

Basically, one of the issues that's plagued OEMs in the past is the fact that each SoC vendor (e.g. Qualcomm, Samsung, ARM) would not only have a kernel for each SoC, but each OEM device using that SoC would be another branch on that SoC-specific repository. This would then be compounded by the OEMs having their own kernel repositories that pull from the device-specific branches of a SoC repository, and bug fixes from OEMs would have to trickle back upstream to the vendor repository before making them back to other device-specific kernels.

The new proposed model would see a single kernel soruce for a given SoC, and device-specific changes would come in the form of kernel modules, config overrides, and device tree overlays. They are also strongly recommending SoC changes to the kernel be upstreamed to mainline Linux, which would greatly ease porting to newer kernels in the future.

Re:ARCore: Augmented reality at Android scale by pjmlp on Wednesday August 30, 2017 @12:40AM (#15129770)
Recommendations are just that, advices that might be followed, or not.

It isn't the first time that Google does recommendations to OEMs.

They also did recommendations for security updates. An advice that OEMs only follow for the customers that paid the big bucks for the flagship devices.

So unless they actually provide requirements instead of recommendations, nothing will change for consumers.