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Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by nostrademons on Monday August 28, 2017 @07:31PM (#15121018)
I think you're observing Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy, which I guess could be stated pithily as "The goal of every bureaucracy is to become self-sustaining. Those that don't are replaced by those that do":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Pournelle#Iron_Law_of_Bu...

It's interesting that another active comment thread on the HN front page today is about evolutionary game theory & the selfish gene. I'd posit that there's a whole class of "evolutionary systems", subject to the axioms of 1.) large numbers 2.) random variation 3.) selection bias and 4.) competitive pressure. And any such system will always tend toward survival and maintenance of the status quo as its primary imperative, for the simple, tautological reason that those organizations that don't are replaced by those that do. This operates on multiple levels, from the molecule to the gene to the cell to the individual to the firm to the bureaucracy to the society as a whole. Oftentimes, behavior that makes no sense on one level seems obvious if you consider the "actor" to be the level above or below what you're looking at: the gene instead of the individual, or the firm instead of the individual, or the society instead of the firm.

In your example, for instance, the primary actor whose survival that the bureaucracy optimizes for isn't the individual: it's the bureaucracy itself. Individuals who serve their own interests instead of the bureaucracy are rejected and fired, as are individuals who serve the other individuals that the bureaucracy supposedly benefits. Why? Because bureaucracies without this incentive structure are replaced by bureaucracies with it.

And there actually are plenty of areas within U.S. society where bureaucracies are not the primary actors. The individual is still valued over the firm or bureaucracy within therapy culture, artist communities, fandom, Internet forums, dinner parties, and many other social contexts. But because there is no central bureaucracy or organization to point to, these niches fall off our radar screen; niches where individual humans remain dominant are by definition areas without enough resources to support a bureaucracy.

Baumol's cost disease is different, and IMHO a more short-term ailment that's afflicting developed economies as they transition to the information age. This phenomena of growing ever more complex systems on top of individuals is pervasive, and will continue to happen as long as the population keeps growing.

Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by AnthonyMouse on Monday August 28, 2017 @09:45PM (#15121552)
The trouble with that analysis is that "self-sustaining" doesn't inherently imply large or bureaucratic or inefficient. It's possible for a large inefficient bureaucracy to be replaced by a more efficient self-sustaining system with less centralization.

The bureaucracy can fight but it can also lose. Blockbuster Video is no longer a thing that exists because of market pressure. Standard Oil was broken up because of political pressure. There have existed countries that, following the conclusion of a major war, actually disbanded the majority of their military forces, both voluntarily and due to external force. Countries have revolutions where the revolutionaries win and then exile or execute the previous ruling bureaucrats.

In theory the same thing can happen through the democratic process, although this is obviously less common because bureaucracies have a solid understanding of how to subvert electoral opposition.

Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by jessaustin on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @02:28AM (#15122500)
Your examples are of bureaucracies destroyed from the outside, by stronger competitors for the same resources. It's quite impossible to curb a bureaucracy from the inside, e.g. through "democratic process". The system will not fix the problems with the system.
Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @08:57AM (#15123931)
Perhaps, but so don't do that.

If the wasteful bureaucracy will not commit suicide then help some less wasteful one to commit fratricide.

Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by readams on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @10:27AM (#15124488)
Just need a competing Navy to conquer the US. Easy as pie.
Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by jessaustin on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @03:14PM (#15126838)
If they have container ships, I wouldn't bet against them...
Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by meric on Monday August 28, 2017 @10:53PM (#15121784)
I suppose it's like cows that evolve ever larger horns to compete for mates, then one day a new predator comes in and kills all the cows because their horns are too heavy and they can't run fast enough.
Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by drewbuschhorn on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @09:41AM (#15124171)
I think that's slightly different, an "outside of context" problem, as Banks would say. The cows didn't leave enough flexibility to adapt to the unexpected, rather than just being inefficient.
Re:Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships by taneq on Monday August 28, 2017 @11:15PM (#15121851)
> I think you're observing Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy

This sounds like a special case of the more general law of survival of the fittest (where 'fittest' means 'most self-sustaining').