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Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by marvin on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @05:14AM (#15079824)
The article doesn't mention it, but the suspect Peter Madsen is the cofounder of Copenhagen Suborbitals. This is an absolutely crazy story which just gets more insane by the day. Starting with a missing journalist and seemingly accidental sinking of a private submarine, getting more and more weird and inconsistent until now a decapitated, limbless corpse shows up.

With the corpse cut in pieces, it's hard to reach any other conclusion than that this was a murder. Or just almost in the region of the semi-plausably concievable, an accident followed by a gruesome attempt to cover it up. The repeated change of stories certainly doesn't help his credibility, and the explanation doesn't stand to reason in any way.

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @05:41AM (#15079960)
> Or just almost in the region of the semi-plausably concievable, an accident followed by a gruesome attempt to cover it up.

The accident theory is being stretched beyond the breaking point by now, I find it hard to come up with even a remotely plausible theory of what kind of accident it would have to be to justify the subsequent events. Such an accident would have to look so suspiciously close to murder that he responded just as if it actually was a murder.

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by ladbye on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:11AM (#15080781)
One theory I've seen was that PM is a highly eccentric person, that's always had problems fitting in and dealing with other people - when working on co-projects. The submarine project was his own, and he was his own boss. If in fact it was an accident that happened down there, it could be hypothesised that PM was afraid that he would loose everything he cared about if the police did not believe it was an accident. Imagine that everything you hold dear is in risk of being taken away from you - that everything you've worked on for so many years may disappear due to something that wasn't your fault? If you have a derailed mindset and think your odds of not loosing everything will improve if you dispose of the body instead of contacting the police immediately? If you have no faith in other people and their judgements?

I am not defending PM, as I think his reasoning and action in any case were completely psychotic in itself, but I can imagine a scenario that - with everything we know up until now - has not been disproven ... although I'm of the firm belief that he did kill that poor girl.

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:20AM (#15080851)
I'm sure that Madsen will do everything he can to make this sort of explanation for the facts (that is: until some new bit of evidence pops up).

Being eccentric is fine, Howard Hughes was an eccentric and so are many writers and film makers. But butchering bodies (the result of an accident or a murder) goes substantially beyond merely being eccentric, it points to having a complete lack of empathy.

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by ladbye on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:27AM (#15080898)
I agree. So far we just haven't heard anything from PM's past that would indicate the lack of empathy ... until now. It's going to be interesting once the police starts talking more about the accident that should've happened. PM must have given a version of what happened, and to some extent a plausible one, since the prosecutor is still sticking to involuntary manslaughter (and most likely also improper interference with a corpse after today's identification and facts).
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by dmix on Thursday August 24, 2017 @12:07PM (#15091269)
It still wasn't premeditated murder either. Which is an important distinction.

Best case scenario was his desperation to protect his reputation given this was the first journalist to visit his submarine who proceeded to die within his care would destroy his reputation. He probably freaked out and made a series of bad choices.

Worst case this was a crime of passion.

A 10yr manslaughter sentence seems like an appropriate punishment here.

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by marvin on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:38AM (#15080577)
My comment came out a little more ambiguously than intended, so just for the sake of clarity: I was pointing out that there is not much room for doubt here. There is certainly no reasonable probability that he's innocent with the evidence that's shown up by now.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by londons_explore on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:45AM (#15080612)
Imagine for some reason the journalist died, but then he felt the need to hide the body to, for example, hide evidence of an affair.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:48AM (#15080637)
That makes absolutely zero sense, he was seen going on board with her by many people and there are pictures in the media of it. Besides that, the guy was according to many accounts in an open relationship, on top of that the trip with the sub was going to be published.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by colde on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @05:26AM (#15079877)
Worth noting here that he haven't had anything to do with Copenhagen Suborbitals for a few years, as he split away to do his own thing (RML Spacelab).
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by quickthrower2 on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @06:07AM (#15080089)
Yeah I can't see how a jury would not convict on murder unless there is some technicality or excluded evidence.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by iClaudiusX on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:02AM (#15080373)
Robert Durst got away with killing and dismembering his victim because his defense claimed self-defense while shifting the jury's attention and anger toward the prosecutor for being an ambitious woman. If you haven't seen HBO's The Jinx it's well worth the time and absolutely terrifying to see how easily manipulated a jury can be.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by Lewton on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:51AM (#15080658)
While that's fascinating and creepy

I just want to point out that the Danish jury system have very little incommon with the American jury system

Professional jury vs a jury system basically designed to ensure the least qualified people are in the jury

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by brusch64 on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:56AM (#15081111)
Can you please elaborate the point "professional jury vs a jury system basically designed to ensure the least qualified people are in the jury" ?
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by Lewton on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @09:30AM (#15081350)
The way the "jury of your peers" is selected in the american justice system means that sometimes if a person actually has any knowledge in the field the case is about (say a computer scientist in a software patent infringement case) they will be filtered out in the jury selection process. On top of that, jury duty is seen as something to be avoided, so there's also the adage that juries only consist of people not smart enough to get out of jury duty.

In contrast to Denmark, where in a lot of cases the jury is the three judges preceding over the case, or in cases where there's a real jury, they jurors have some form of law degree

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by brusch64 on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @09:42AM (#15081436)
Okay ! Didn't know this - thank you for your explanation.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by Lewton on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @12:00PM (#15082574)
I just researched to make sure I got it right

I'm wrong about the jurors usually having a law degree. Maybe. Apparently each jurisdiction has a committee that creates a short list every 4 years of people suited for jury duty. I can find no further info on what "Suited for jury duty" means, so the "has a law degree" thing might be untrue

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by kuschku on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:24AM (#15080490)
Denmark doesn't really have jury trials, all trials are judged purely by a judge.

This is to ensure the facts matter more than how they are represented.

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by msh on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:55AM (#15080681)
Not true. All trials where it can give 4 or more years of prison have a full jury trial (Nævningeting).

Smaller but serious trials have a limited jury (domsmænd) if the accused claim they are not guilty.

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:02AM (#15080725)
But these are not juries of peers.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by msh on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:16AM (#15080819)
What would you say the difference is between a nævningeting And a jury of peers?
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:22AM (#15080863)
It's the difference between professionals and amateurs, besides that the judges can overrule the jury.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by vilhelm_s on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:33AM (#15080942)
According to Wikipedia they can overrule a guilty verdict, but not a non-guilty verdict. I think that's actually very similar to America, where judges can set aside a jury guilty verdict if they deem "no reasonable jury" could convict based on the presented evidence.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by msh on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:47AM (#15081038)
Nævninge are not professionals in any way. They are selected from the general population. The judge can only overrule a guilty verdict, not a not guilty verdict.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:51AM (#15081070)
> Nævninge are not professionals in any way.

Hm, apologies. I was under the impression they are not laypeople.

Thank you for correcting me. Question: does this imply that Denmark also has a jury duty?

Edit: this later comment makes me doubt again...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15081350

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by vilhelm_s on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @11:25AM (#15082230)
So, reading a bit, it seems to work like this.

There is a jury duty in the sense that if you are asked to serve as lay judge you can not refuse. However, in practice the system is set up so that only volunteers get asked.

Every 4 years, each municipal council (kommune) provides a list (grundlisten) of candidates for lay judges (nævning). The list must be representative of general demographics. To be eligible for the list, you must be "suitable" for the role (which seems to mean you should not have a criminal background), and you must not be a lawyer, prosecutor, judge, or police officer. The cities can use their own procedures to compile the list, but in practice the way it works is you write to the selection committee giving your name, age, job title, and motivation for why you want to be a lay judge.

The lists are combined, and about 10,000 people are randomly selected from them. If you are selected you have a duty to serve. You serve for a period of 4 years, and will typically sit on 4 to 5 cases per year.

https://www.frederiksberg.dk/politik/kommunalbestyrelsen-og-... http://www.domstol.dk/saadangoerdu/tildigderer/naeavningdoms...

Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @12:45PM (#15082992)
Thank you for this comment, that's more than I could find about it, even with Google translate it can be quite hard to understand what is written on a page in a language you do not understand.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by quickthrower2 on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @08:19PM (#15086516)
Wow if you are called to serve that'd make you quite unattractive to employers, and would limit your movements e.g. working abroad?
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by rangibaby on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @06:51AM (#15080299)
There's always something. Look at the OJ Simpson case. Bizzare to say the least, especially the whole Mark Furhman saga.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:19AM (#15080454)
Only an extremely small fraction of the trials in Denmark are jury trials.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by msh on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:50AM (#15080652)
All trials where it can give 4 or more years of prison have a full jury trial.
Re:Kim Wall: Headless body identified as missing journalist by jacquesm on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @07:55AM (#15080679)
In that case I suspect mr. Madsen will have ample opportunity to waste the time of more people.