I've worked downtown for a few years and I really don't think your comments are entirely accurate. I don't want to turn this into a back and forth but by no means would I say that it is downtown is dirty (there are some less fortunate spots just outside of the city). I ride the light rail RTA to work every day from ~20 miles out and consistently get to work at about the time. I don't ride the buses so perhaps that is the issue. I would agree that there isn't a lot to do but characterizing all of downtown as a parking lot is a little rough. Progressive, Key, AmTrust, Sherwin-Willaims, Parker-Hannifin, Eton are all Fortune 500 and in the area and have nothing to do with the medical industry.

I rode the light rail from east side to downtown every day for two years. It's dirty. West side to downtown may be another story.

Does the Blue line still break down sometimes in the winter due to ice on the wires? That happened to me once going from downtown to the end of the blue by Shaker.

The fun part was when the electricity began to arc and we could see a bit of fire on the top, but also couldn't leave the train because we might have gotten electrocuted, so our choices were to sit around and wait, potentially burning alive, or make a run for it and potentially get electrocuted.

I think I was too tired to care at that point in the morning (5am?) so I just sat annoyed that I'd miss the bus to work and read up on IBM Websphere. Not sure if that had anything to do with my lingering distaste for IBM Websphere, but I'm sure it didn't help.

I live in UC. I leave from the Little Italy stop. The train is extremely clean. Someone who has also lived in NYC. The trains are magnitudes cleaner in Cle than NYC.

Weird, that's the EXACT one I rode. Plus, the stairway up to the train stand that overlooked those contemporary condo's always smelled like piss 5+ years ago .... NOT CLEAN! Glad they have been cleaned up since.

Pretty sure that station has recently been rebuilt, the one at the foot of Cedar Hill certainly has. The last five years have seen a lot of new buses, as well, although I'm not sure how true that is once you get a little further away from the health-tech corridor and University Circle.

Little Italy station is brand new. There was one on border of East Cleveland and UC that was very sketchy. It's now gone.

Also GE Lighting, The Fed, Philips Healthcare, several startups bought by IBM, Glenn NASA, etc...

Also Sherwin WIlliams.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say the whole city is "extremely dirty" but it did have some of the dirtiest mass transit I've ever seen.

Cleveland seems to have all of the drawbacks of living in Columbus or Cincinnati without any of the benefits those cities provide, such as the much lower crime rate in both Cinci/Columbus and the more walkable neighborhoods/downtown area in Columbus.

Columbus is a more fun city if you are young, but Cleveland's advantage is that its healthcare is much better than either and so are its cultural institutions. Cleveland has elite museums, a well-known orchestra and a several playhouses. And if you are into professional sports, it's obviously you're best choice (except if you like professional football).

I don't know if I'd say that Cincinnati offers much over either one.

I disagree about RTA comment. I take the 55 almost everyday and it is super clean. The city used to be dirty, but has been rejuvenated from public square to the east bank. It's really bike friendly as far as transportation goes as well.

It is definitely more bike friendly than some cities, that's true. Plenty of bike lanes have been added the last few years.

Regarding the cleanliness, (parts of) the flats and public square have gotten better but that's only two small areas and is the extent of the cleanup. I drive past the steel yard every day for my commute and you can not have your windows down or let any outside air in all along 77 because the smell is so disgusting.

> I drive past the steel yard every day for my commute and you can not have your windows down or let any outside air in all along 77 because the smell is so disgusting.

You might already know this but you're also driving past a wastewater treatment plant, and through a pretty sparsely populated area. It's not representative of the metropolitan area as a whole.

Id also have to disagree on the RTA bit. They're pretty well run here in Dayton.

Good (terrible?) before/after animation of a parking crater in Cleveland: http://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/03/05/seeking-submissions-th...

That parking lot comment has to be one of the best characterizations of American downtown areas I've heard. Well said.

I'd rather have parking than fighting to find it!

Parking has an opportunity cost.

Parking takes up space and costs money to build, which could have been used for something else. There is always a balance between having parking and having an abundance of bars, restaurants, offices, and living spaces within any given area.

I'd rather people walked or biked instead....

To be fair, the public transit he's moving from, RTD, isn't always great either. It just filed a fourth extension to get the automated crossings working on the new commuter train. Until then the crossings are being manned by flaggers.

Honestly I just wanted to complain about RTD. I used to live in the midwest, it was nice. Cheap housing!

The last sentence of this post perfectly describes Austin, Texas.

I wonder how many people commit to moving to a city without actually knowing more then what their tourist board puts out.

You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

I grew up in Springfield, MA — and I was seeing similar red flags reading his post about Cleveland. Springfield also has a very clean heart of downtown, but it's a total ghost town after 5pm and really only has one significantly sized employer (there are also museums and good places to eat in Springfield). "Clean" means nothing for a downtown area.

Real estate is also very cheap because no one wants to live there (few jobs, violence) and people struggle to upkeep the very large houses from the times when Springfield was actually prosperous.

Cleveland is by no means a large city, but the Metropolitan population is probably 4-5 times that of Springfield, MA. Also, Cleveland peaked in population 60+ years ago, so the housing stock is relatively old and cheap, and the cultural landmarks are outsized for a city it's size. Like Detroit, the suburbs were more prosperous than the city center, although there is massive resurgence happening downtown with breweries, restaurants, and art galleries popping up everywhere. There are many large, lofty buildings that are incredibly cheap (like Chicago's West Loop 30 years ago). Overall it seems like a turnaround story similar to Pittsburgh and Detroit.