Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by torbjorn on Thursday August 10, 2017 @04:46PM
(#14984067)
this is a fool's errand. today's statistical inference based "AI" is a probability distribution that squishes itself through cracks in data to "learn" a path of least resistance. subject-object reasoning systems, such as English, are cut from a different cloth. semantic language is a discontinuous function.
Asking asking an entity that can only discern its environment through continuous functions to explain itself is like asking an amoeba to play piano.
Machine Learning is a statistics renaissance, it is changing the world, but "Explainable AI" is a notion that is totally divorced from where the field is at atm.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by nl on Thursday August 10, 2017 @08:41PM
(#14985722)
Sorry, but this comment is completely uniformed.
Explaining ML inference is an active area of research, and there are plenty of decent approaches which are getting good results.
For example, LIME[1] can explain why a neural network doing visual classification came out with the result that it did. Distilling the Knowledge in a Neural Network[2] is another approach which leads towards simpler representations.
LIME isn't perfect, but that's the nature of research (and why DARPA funds this kind of thing).
this is a fool's errand
"Distilling the Knowledge in a Neural Network", authors: Geoffrey Hinton, Oriol Vinyals, Jeff Dean
Fools, all of them. DARPA should ask HN next time it wants to know about the current state of AI.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by bayonetz on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:52AM
(#14986911)
I've done some experiments with LIME -- it's one of the most promising approaches for extracting prediction reasons from arbitrary and otherwise opaque models. Another interesting approach specific to random forests is decision paths: http://blog.datadive.net/interpreting-random-forests/
You get some weird outputs from these sometimes though which makes it hard to automatically show them to users. For example, a reason might be "because you liked salad restaurant X you should check out check BBQ place Y" and it's because there happens to be an overlap in the users who like both captured in your model. Yet it can cause cognitive dissonance for the users who are either strictly healthy eaters (salads only, no BBQ) or delude themselves into thinking they are (forgetting how much they actually order BBQ in addition to salads). That's the main challenge I see -- figuring out how to filter out reasons from these approaches that don't jive with common intuitions or, even harder, get people to learn to trust the reasons as counter-intuitive as they may seem.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by nl on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:14AM
(#14987041)
Yes, there is plenty of work to do.
Tree-based classifiers always have the reputation of being "explainable". As you note this isn't always as simple as it should be.
In the unsupervised space I really like plotting dendrograms on hierarchical clustering. There's an excellent example in the recent DeepMoji paper[1] where they show how similar emojis cluster together AND how you can truncate the hierarchy at different depths to get capture different ranges of emotion.
It's laughable when people insist that DARPA are foolish for funding work in this area.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by dsjoerg on Thursday August 10, 2017 @05:01PM
(#14984230)
It's easy to be dismissive, but the project becomes more tractable when you think of the task of "explaining" as yet another classification task.
The goal is not necessarily to explain _exactly_ what's happening inside the AI, no more than a human can explain their decisions by describing _exactly_ what's happening inside their heads.
The explanation is an additional _decision_ that accompanies the original classification decision. The explanation space has its own utility function and the goal is to find the explanation with the highest utility.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by torbjorn on Thursday August 10, 2017 @05:36PM
(#14984545)
I don't mean to come off as dismissive, and yes my comment is a sassy one. Machine Vision systems are proof that neural networks and other machine learning techniques are revolutionary. I really believe that.
But the notion of "Explainable AI" just reeks of upper middle management folks performing what they see as visionary risk management. When in reality these people don't know what they are talking about. Explaining exactly what's happening inside "the AI" is the domain of linear algebra. We can't be as exact in plain english but the generalization "it's fitting the training data" speaks volumes more than any _just_around_the_corner_ "explainable AI" secret sauce algorithm ever will.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by nl on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:29AM
(#14986802)
But the notion of "Explainable AI" just reeks of upper middle management folks performing what they see as visionary risk management.
AI says: "kill this person".
If it's only "upper management folks" asking "why" then I'm all about that visionary risk management!
Hell, I debug machine learning models every day, and most of my time is spent around working out "why". And the answer "it's just fitting the training data" is often wrong, insufficient, or misleading.
For example, I'm currently working on a sentiment-related task, and there's a particular class of misclassification where the model isn't taking the context of a word into account sufficiently.
In this case, the data is fit nicely, but the features it is fitting to don't contain the context. By adding tri-grams I can capture the context sufficiently to avoid this problem.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by cossatot on Thursday August 10, 2017 @06:22PM
(#14984905)
I can't speak for the middle management, but as I scientist I am very uninterested in AI based on neural nets because of the lack of explication. Success at prediction without a commensurate advancement in theory is pretty useless for me, because I haven't learned anything new about the world. And while Google et al are good at stacking ML models, those models are nowhere near as elegant and composable as scientific advancements.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by torbjorn on Thursday August 10, 2017 @07:12PM
(#14985237)
You are right there is a large gulf between the deep learning theory hype and the measurable improvements in physical quality of life that the hard sciences have proved themselves capable of.
However I submit a notable exception! The vision system of self driving cars is a neural network that is currently changing the world and there is no lack of explication, we know exactly how it works. These "convolutional neural network" infer object boundaries from differences in intensity among matrices of pixels by scanning different patches of the pixel matrix and cross comparing these patches.
But you are right there is a lot of hype. I think part of the issue is the collective idolization of "algorithms". The limiting factor is data. And we don't have the data required to development models that are agent like in structure. Self interested agent systems, that employ subject-object language, have only been developed once. And they needed a training dataset measured in millions of years of evolution.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by visarga on Thursday August 10, 2017 @11:37PM
(#14986410)
I think you're glossing over many accomplishments in ML. It's not just vision that is successful. There's NLP, optimization, ranking, voice, speech, recommendations and many other tasks that work well.
You say the limiting factor is data. But there has been a trend in the last 2 years to run ML on data generated from simulations (games, auto, chemical bonds, robots in VR, AlphaGo, etc). Simulations are dynamic datasets with unlimited flexibility. The better we learn to simulate, the closer we will get to reasoning. Both simulations and reasoning are based on object-relation graphs for describing the scene.
My vision is that we will build better, more precise simulators that would allow an AI to input a problem and run experiments and search ("what happens if"). Just like AlphaGo, but for the real world. A combination of neural nets for "intuition" and simulators for precision would solve the problem.
Simulators could be of many kinds: chemical molecule simulator, cell simulator, physical simulator, city traffic simulator, car simulator, flight simulator, and so on. Basically what's been the object of activity of supercomputing, but this time with neural nets selecting the experiments.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by visarga on Thursday August 10, 2017 @11:35PM
(#14986399)
> as I scientist I am very uninterested in AI based on neural nets because of the lack of explication
Neural nets are more like reflexes than reasoning. Most of them are feed forward and some don't even have memory and can't solve references. So it's unfair to expect a job that is best done based on graphs or on memory-attention to be done by a rudimentary system that only knows to map X to y.
But they are not totally unexplainable - you can get gradients on the data and see what parts of the input data most influenced the output, then you can perturb the inputs to see how the output would change.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by drvdevd on Thursday August 10, 2017 @05:06PM
(#14984290)
In theory, one could make an amoeba play piano somehow, if we think of a piano broadly speaking as just an array of notes with various associated variables (pitch, force, etc).
I'm thinking... using chemical signals of some sort to force amoeboid cells to move in certain directions or take certain shapes, we can control gradiants of amoeba in sequence, and thus "teach" them encoded piano music.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by torbjorn on Thursday August 10, 2017 @05:23PM
(#14984434)
this is a pretty cool idea actually... if we just spent some time manipulating their chemical reward systems such that their amoeboid population densities opened and closed circuits on a piano key we could make them produce music. and i think the transference of this pattern would be enough to imbue them with the fire of thought! they would seek to control their collective amoeboid destiny! their will to be would drive them to express themselves, they would form an amoeboid super structure, spelling in english letters: "s e n d n u d e s". And AI is born.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by hyperion2010 on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:56AM
(#14986932)
I think there is quite a bit of fertile ground to study what kinds of answers really are 'explainable.' The story(ies) I usually bring up in this case are 'Who Sunk the Boat?' and 'The Straw That Broke the Camel's Back.' Any decision process that includes summation to a bound (literally any integrate and fire neuron), is going to require much more complex study to understand the real circumstances under which it fires. If we could build these things we would already know, far, far more about the universe than we do. Maybe I will add a new story to my list: 'Why did the chicken cross the road?'
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by blazespin on Thursday August 10, 2017 @07:30PM
(#14985332)
It is a statistics renaissance, you answers your own question. The AI needs to explain in easily understandable ways how the stats arrived at a conclusion. Eg, "We discovered there is a correlation that on sunny days, people drink more icemochas when you play the music louder. That's why we're telling you right now to increase the volume in your stores."
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by danschumann on Thursday August 10, 2017 @06:56PM
(#14985133)
As long as it doesn't realize it's easier to lie to humans about what it's ACTUALLY doing. Maybe make the explainer algorithm is non-ai-based, to ensure it doesn't optimize out honesty.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by nradov on Thursday August 10, 2017 @10:02PM
(#14986083)
It seems a bit unfair to hold AI to higher explanatory standards than our fellow humans. Most people make decisions based on intuition and emotion. Then they rationalize those decisions after the fact and invent explanations that seem plausible.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by Retra on Thursday August 10, 2017 @07:26PM
(#14985309)
Couldn't you just compartmentalize? Make an outer AI that has to defer to an inner AI, and nest them in such a way that the only interface between the layers is a 'explaining' communication channel?
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by roceasta on Thursday August 10, 2017 @09:05PM
(#14985840)
Haven't read the article but what if General Intelligence precisely is the ability to explain oneself to oneself (or to others)? This could turn out to be a chicken and egg problem.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by arcanus on Thursday August 10, 2017 @03:54PM
(#14983503)
The government is far behind on ML/AI. I don't see any evidence this effort is going to help them catch up.
In fact, the department of defense is far behind even the department of energy inside the US government on high performance computing, algorithms and machine learning.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by mattkrause on Thursday August 10, 2017 @05:44PM
(#14984602)
How would you know? I would guess that the DoD is not particularly interested in releasing lots of information about their capabilities.
Second, the Department of Energy isn't just a random department with a lot of spare computing power. They run the National Labs, and part of that work is to make supercomputing available to academic and industrial researchers too. These are also used for nuclear-related projects (part of the DoE's mandate, but obviously related to DoD concerns too) and I would bet that there is some mechanism to boot off academic researchers if the national interest suddenly required exaflops of computation,
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by fapjacks on Thursday August 10, 2017 @07:57PM
(#14985485)
This is actually something pretty easy to learn. If you pay attention to the business solicitations on FedBizOpps [0], you can see the whole swath of what each DoD entity wants to achieve in the next year or two, because they lay it all out explicitly.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by SomeStupidPoint on Thursday August 10, 2017 @04:06PM
(#14983619)
Isn't this fairly normal?
I seem to recall that the DoE, NOAA, and NASA always had a lot of computing resources, and that they generally rented time on those clusters out to other government agencies.
I do wish the government would step up on AI though -- I think that they owe it to the country to put together a Manhattan Project for AI.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by arcanus on Thursday August 10, 2017 @04:11PM
(#14983656)
Perhaps normal, but the concern is that this could be a strategic disadvantage versus countries that are massively boosting these programs.
The Chinese government is leading (and funding) massive efforts in high performance computing and AI. If they win, entire high tech industries could be situated in (and lead by) China.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by SomeStupidPoint on Thursday August 10, 2017 @04:18PM
(#14983759)
I'm troubled by the DoD actions on AI, but not by who owns the supercomputers in the US.
It actually works out better if the US government computers are through various science organization labs, because it locates much of their computing power in places also accessible to universities and at agencies amenable to US universities using their resources. So funding computers through the DoE, NOAA, NASA, etc actually makes them more available for the US research community, while allowing the military to lease the time they need (eg, for calculating explosion dynamics).
The total funding for US supercomputers also could be higher, but that's a general problem with US infrastructure investment.
My main point was there's no real concern with the computers being owned by scientific institutions instead of the military -- they're still government funded, it just makes them more widely accessible for use.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by lolokaydude on Thursday August 10, 2017 @04:37PM
(#14983973)
Neither of that are impressive? The issue is that they don't publish a ton of papers, but TBH those look like the projects of an organization that is slow moving and behind the times.
Re:Inside Darpa’s Push to Make Artificial Intelligence Expla...
by mattkrause on Thursday August 10, 2017 @05:28PM
(#14984478)
You are not going to see many research papers with DARPA staff as an authors. That's just not how they work.
Instead, they contract with academic and industrial researchers to work on specific things that are (or might someday be) of particular interest to the DoD. Thus, if there's a huge DARPA-funded breakthrough in Probabilistic Programming, it's going to have (say) Frank Woods' and Oxford University's name on it, not the DARPA program manager's. The final work might not even be published. They're happy to fund industrial groups if that lays the groundwork for products that the DoD eventually wants to buy.
Asking asking an entity that can only discern its environment through continuous functions to explain itself is like asking an amoeba to play piano.
Machine Learning is a statistics renaissance, it is changing the world, but "Explainable AI" is a notion that is totally divorced from where the field is at atm.
Explaining ML inference is an active area of research, and there are plenty of decent approaches which are getting good results.
For example, LIME[1] can explain why a neural network doing visual classification came out with the result that it did. Distilling the Knowledge in a Neural Network[2] is another approach which leads towards simpler representations.
LIME isn't perfect, but that's the nature of research (and why DARPA funds this kind of thing).
this is a fool's errand
"Distilling the Knowledge in a Neural Network", authors: Geoffrey Hinton, Oriol Vinyals, Jeff Dean
Fools, all of them. DARPA should ask HN next time it wants to know about the current state of AI.
[1] https://github.com/marcotcr/lime
[2] https://arxiv.org/abs/1503.02531
You get some weird outputs from these sometimes though which makes it hard to automatically show them to users. For example, a reason might be "because you liked salad restaurant X you should check out check BBQ place Y" and it's because there happens to be an overlap in the users who like both captured in your model. Yet it can cause cognitive dissonance for the users who are either strictly healthy eaters (salads only, no BBQ) or delude themselves into thinking they are (forgetting how much they actually order BBQ in addition to salads). That's the main challenge I see -- figuring out how to filter out reasons from these approaches that don't jive with common intuitions or, even harder, get people to learn to trust the reasons as counter-intuitive as they may seem.
Tree-based classifiers always have the reputation of being "explainable". As you note this isn't always as simple as it should be.
In the unsupervised space I really like plotting dendrograms on hierarchical clustering. There's an excellent example in the recent DeepMoji paper[1] where they show how similar emojis cluster together AND how you can truncate the hierarchy at different depths to get capture different ranges of emotion.
It's laughable when people insist that DARPA are foolish for funding work in this area.
[1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1708.00524.pdf
The goal is not necessarily to explain _exactly_ what's happening inside the AI, no more than a human can explain their decisions by describing _exactly_ what's happening inside their heads.
The explanation is an additional _decision_ that accompanies the original classification decision. The explanation space has its own utility function and the goal is to find the explanation with the highest utility.
But the notion of "Explainable AI" just reeks of upper middle management folks performing what they see as visionary risk management. When in reality these people don't know what they are talking about. Explaining exactly what's happening inside "the AI" is the domain of linear algebra. We can't be as exact in plain english but the generalization "it's fitting the training data" speaks volumes more than any _just_around_the_corner_ "explainable AI" secret sauce algorithm ever will.
AI says: "kill this person".
If it's only "upper management folks" asking "why" then I'm all about that visionary risk management!
Hell, I debug machine learning models every day, and most of my time is spent around working out "why". And the answer "it's just fitting the training data" is often wrong, insufficient, or misleading.
For example, I'm currently working on a sentiment-related task, and there's a particular class of misclassification where the model isn't taking the context of a word into account sufficiently.
In this case, the data is fit nicely, but the features it is fitting to don't contain the context. By adding tri-grams I can capture the context sufficiently to avoid this problem.
However I submit a notable exception! The vision system of self driving cars is a neural network that is currently changing the world and there is no lack of explication, we know exactly how it works. These "convolutional neural network" infer object boundaries from differences in intensity among matrices of pixels by scanning different patches of the pixel matrix and cross comparing these patches.
But you are right there is a lot of hype. I think part of the issue is the collective idolization of "algorithms". The limiting factor is data. And we don't have the data required to development models that are agent like in structure. Self interested agent systems, that employ subject-object language, have only been developed once. And they needed a training dataset measured in millions of years of evolution.
You say the limiting factor is data. But there has been a trend in the last 2 years to run ML on data generated from simulations (games, auto, chemical bonds, robots in VR, AlphaGo, etc). Simulations are dynamic datasets with unlimited flexibility. The better we learn to simulate, the closer we will get to reasoning. Both simulations and reasoning are based on object-relation graphs for describing the scene.
My vision is that we will build better, more precise simulators that would allow an AI to input a problem and run experiments and search ("what happens if"). Just like AlphaGo, but for the real world. A combination of neural nets for "intuition" and simulators for precision would solve the problem.
Simulators could be of many kinds: chemical molecule simulator, cell simulator, physical simulator, city traffic simulator, car simulator, flight simulator, and so on. Basically what's been the object of activity of supercomputing, but this time with neural nets selecting the experiments.
Neural nets are more like reflexes than reasoning. Most of them are feed forward and some don't even have memory and can't solve references. So it's unfair to expect a job that is best done based on graphs or on memory-attention to be done by a rudimentary system that only knows to map X to y.
But they are not totally unexplainable - you can get gradients on the data and see what parts of the input data most influenced the output, then you can perturb the inputs to see how the output would change.
I'm thinking... using chemical signals of some sort to force amoeboid cells to move in certain directions or take certain shapes, we can control gradiants of amoeba in sequence, and thus "teach" them encoded piano music.
But I'm not sure how this applies to AI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfYbgdo8e-8
Explaining how an AI system makes decisions is completely unrelated to any kind of progress (or not!) towards AGI.
In fact, the department of defense is far behind even the department of energy inside the US government on high performance computing, algorithms and machine learning.
Second, the Department of Energy isn't just a random department with a lot of spare computing power. They run the National Labs, and part of that work is to make supercomputing available to academic and industrial researchers too. These are also used for nuclear-related projects (part of the DoE's mandate, but obviously related to DoD concerns too) and I would bet that there is some mechanism to boot off academic researchers if the national interest suddenly required exaflops of computation,
[0] https://www.fbo.gov/
I seem to recall that the DoE, NOAA, and NASA always had a lot of computing resources, and that they generally rented time on those clusters out to other government agencies.
I do wish the government would step up on AI though -- I think that they owe it to the country to put together a Manhattan Project for AI.
The Chinese government is leading (and funding) massive efforts in high performance computing and AI. If they win, entire high tech industries could be situated in (and lead by) China.
It actually works out better if the US government computers are through various science organization labs, because it locates much of their computing power in places also accessible to universities and at agencies amenable to US universities using their resources. So funding computers through the DoE, NOAA, NASA, etc actually makes them more available for the US research community, while allowing the military to lease the time they need (eg, for calculating explosion dynamics).
The total funding for US supercomputers also could be higher, but that's a general problem with US infrastructure investment.
My main point was there's no real concern with the computers being owned by scientific institutions instead of the military -- they're still government funded, it just makes them more widely accessible for use.
I hope we can come up with a better primary goal for AI than mass murder
Instead, they contract with academic and industrial researchers to work on specific things that are (or might someday be) of particular interest to the DoD. Thus, if there's a huge DARPA-funded breakthrough in Probabilistic Programming, it's going to have (say) Frank Woods' and Oxford University's name on it, not the DARPA program manager's. The final work might not even be published. They're happy to fund industrial groups if that lays the groundwork for products that the DoD eventually wants to buy.
https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/37618/who-coined-the-...