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Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by rayiner on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @05:41PM (#14973949)
Looking at population density alone is misleading; what you really want is population-weighted population density (i.e. how dense are the places where people live). Sweden has large sparsely-populated areas, but almost the whole population is clustered in a handful of major cities. The Stockholm metro area has a quarter of the entire country's population. If the U.S. population were distributed the same way, the D.C. metro area would have 80 million people over an area including Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware. (Instead, it has only 6 million people and the vast majority of those states are rural).

In any event, the U.S.'s proportion of higher-speed connections compares pretty well to Sweden. According to Akamai, in Q4 2016 the U.S. at 42% of connections above 15 mbps. That's less than Sweden (49%) but comparable to Finland (44%). It's way higher than Germany (30%).

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by _delirium on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @08:57PM (#14975324)
Even many dense urban areas in the U.S. have quite low broadband penetration, so it can't be chalked up entirely to low-density areas like small towns and rural areas. According to Fivethirtyeight [1], only 28% of adults within the D.C. city limits have home internet faster than dialup. And Manhattan, pretty much the most urbanized locale in the country, is only a bit higher, at 36%. Many low-density exurban areas are actually higher than that, so something other than density is responsible.

[1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lots-of-people-in-citie...

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by rayiner on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @09:44PM (#14975582)
That's comparing apples and oranges. American metro areas are shaped very differently than European ones. Only 10% of people in the D.C. metro area live within city limits, versus 40% of people in Stockholm's metro area. That inner city population skews much poorer than the metro area as a whole, with a quarter of households making under $25,000 annually. That notwithstanding the city itself is very well wired. If you live in Anacostia (one of the poorest neighborhoods) you can choose from two gigabit fiber providers and two gigabit cable providers.

And as far as I can tell the difference in uptake is not really because broadband is cheaper in Stockholm Internet. Telia charges 990 SEK ($122) for gigabit. Comcast charges $150 for 2 gig, while Verizon charges $70-100 for 1 gig. At the low end, Telia charges $50 for 100/100, versus $40 for Verizon's 50/50 plan.

DC also is a good example of what I mean about population-weighted density. The D.C. metro area has about the same density as the Stockholm metro area, and the municipalities have about the same density too. But in Stockholm 40% of people live in the denser core city versus only 10% of people in D.C. So even though the metro areas have the same density, the distribution makes DC harder to wire (all else being equal).

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by _delirium on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @09:57PM (#14975664)
> That inner city population skews much poorer than the metro area as a whole, with a quarter of households making under $25,000 annually. That notwithstanding the city itself is very well wired. If you live in Anacostia (one of the poorest neighborhoods) you can choose from two gigabit fiber providers and two gigabit cable providers.

Ah so the internet is good in theory, it's only in practice that internet connectivity is poor.

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by rayiner on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @10:11PM (#14975740)
No in practice the Internet is great (see the Akamai stats above). And at least for fiber the price is comparable (see my edit above). The US just has more income inequality, and segregated poor people into inner cities. While lamentable, that is an orthogonal issue that has nothing to do with broadband policy.
Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by IIAOPSW on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @10:02PM (#14975688)
That still doesn't explain New York. The density and shape of New York is more like what you describe for European cities due to the fact that it was developed before the car was invented. So why does the internet connectivity suck in Manhattan?
Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by FireBeyond on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @10:38PM (#14975861)
> American metro areas are shaped very differently than European ones.

Oi.

So many excuses for why in so many large cities of the US you can struggle to find anything above 5mbps connections.

"Oh, the US has such a unique density, unlike anywhere else!" - well, actually ...

"Oh, well, the cities are shaped differently!"

Come on now.

> versus $40 for Verizon's 50/50 plan.

You mean with FIOS? That they are not selling any more because it wasn't profitable enough for them once they had had to build any notable infrastructure?

Oh, not to mention that that $40/mo 50/50 plan actually went up to as high as $99/mo after year one, depending on your area....

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by rayiner on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @11:24PM (#14976068)
You're arguing from a false premise that excuses need to be made. As the data shows, US Internet, on average, is very competitive, no excuses needed. To use France as an example: According to OECD data, fiber deployment is higher in the US than in France (11% of broadband connections versus 8%). But if you want to know why they built fiber in Paris first then the surrounding communes, while in DC the suburbs got it before the city, well shape and demographics has a lot to do with it.

As to FIOS, they're not only still selling it, but upgrading the whole footprint to gigabit. And in much of the footprint (e.g. the D.C. suburbs), Comcast is offering multi-gig for $150/month. I don't know why my redneck neighborhood in exurban Maryland apparently has better internet choices than the Bay Area. Chalk that up to another major difference between the US and Europe: in the US, actual broadband construction is driven by state and local policy, not national policy.

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by geff82 on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @06:29PM (#14974351)
Good broadband is no doubt still an issue in parts of Germany, especially if not cable is available. But I see a big political push and discussion on how to have higher standards and how to reach them. No one says "well then, lets make the status quo the standard".

I have to say that recently I sound much too arrogant concerning the US. Sorry to you guys. It is just that the little Texas landowner in me, that I am, wants to cry at night at the sum of this years politics. It has not been like that the governments before.

If there is a country that has a place in my heart, it is yours.

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by lucaspiller on Thursday August 10, 2017 @01:25AM (#14976695)
Here in Lithuania, most phone networks offer LTE for home internet, for rural areas where you can't get fibre. LTE covers 95% of the country by area (admittedly the geography is favourable as the country is rather flat). I can't find any real details on speeds, as it is sold 'as good as you can get', but one provider says with LTE where the theoretical maximum is 100 Mbps, you can get an average of 35 Mbps down and 10 Mbps up - however they are now rolling out LTE Advanced with a theoretical maximum of 300 Mbps.

Another comment expresses concerns about not being able to get the coverage advertised, but these are all just political issues. When you take a contract here they'll check the expected coverage and warn you if it could be bad, and even then you can cancel the contract within the first 30 days with no extra charges. And don't forget that LTE hardware designed for home use usually has more and better antennas than mobile devices, and you can install an external antenna.

N.b. The Akamai ratings for Lithuania don't look that great, but I'd assume it's mostly because people here often have older generation mobile devices (so not the fastest LTE) and computers (so no 5GHz wifi). There is also a bit of a resistance to upgrade, so a lot of people are on slower connections that they deem 'good enough' even though they could switch provider and get 10x the speed for the same price (a couple of years ago fibre was installed in my building so I could upgrade from 10 Mbps cable to 1000 Mbps fibre, but they didn't even put an advert on the noticeboard so I didn't realise for a few months).

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by Retric on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @09:43PM (#14975572)
D.C. - Boston has 52.33 million (15%) in a much smaller land area than your suggesting. Really once your talking about 2+ Million population centers adding some long distance fiber between them is so cheap it's practically free compared to last mile costs.

PS: Fairfax county a suburb of D.C. has a over 60% of the population (1.1m) than West Virginia (1.8m) in less than 2% of the land area aka 406mi² vs 24,038 mi² aka or well over 50 times the population density.

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by alkonaut on Thursday August 10, 2017 @03:38AM (#14977301)
> dense are the places where people live). Sweden has large sparsely-populated areas, but almost the whole population is clustered in a handful of major cities. The Stockholm metro area has a quarter of the entire country's population

Obviously large cities in all countries will have high speed broadband. A better measure of broadband penetration is probably to look outside cities. Perhaps surprisingly, fiber is often built from "the outside in" in Sweden, due to subsidies. Dense areas such as cities obviously have a lot of choice, but after that the places that got (and keep getting) fiber are remote and very sparsely populated areas. The thinking (I'm assuming) is that medium density places such as suburbs will be getting fiber by market forces, and already have choices such as DSL in the meantime - so the vast subsidies to pull fiber to every remote cottage is focusing on the really remote areas such as small islands, small remote villages etc.

So contrary to what one might think, Sweden now has fiber in many of the lowest density areas such as remote houses in the Stockholm archipelago

Re:Americans don’t need fast home Internet service, FCC sugg... by icebraining on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @06:17PM (#14974243)
I find those numbers highly suspect. In Portugal, 94% of the subscribers had a contracted speed of 20mbps or more. Now, contracted is not real, but only 28% above 15mbps? And dropping? That makes no sense.