What "culture"? What "gangs"? I'm talking about the mobs that form when enough people lose basic necessities like food and shelter. When enough people have to choose between starving to death or joining the mob that's taking food by any means necessary, most choose the latter. Given the options, that's a rational choice. Nobody wants to be part of a mob starting a food riot, but that's what human s do when you they are out of options.

> they form because the culture is broken

Have you ever actually met many poor people? "Culture" isn't the problem, and they are some of the hardest working people in the country. They are also some of the nicest people I've ever met and by far the most generous.

If you want to actually fix the problem so welfare isn't necessary, fix the things that are currently denying them the opportunity to improving their situation such as the prison-industrial complex, racist crap like "redlining", various predatory business practices, and regressive taxes. Find ways to increase labor's power such as unions or guilds, with the goal of increasing both available jobs and job stability.

> Arguably it's the welfare money that significantly led to the culture breakdown

That is pure nonsense. Seriously, try actually living[1] below the poverty line for a while, or talk to people that have had to live through a lifetime of denied opportunities.

[1] Due to an unfortunate medical situation, I currently live on less than $1500/month.

The people rioting in Baltimore are gangs, not starving, hard working poor people you talk about. The hard working poor people are having their shops vandalized by the rioting gangs.

> Arguably it's the welfare money that significantly led to the culture breakdown in the first place by destroying economic and social structure.

A cursory examination of the level of violent crime (particularly against property holders) in states where there is little or no welfare state compared with those in which there is a pretty comprehensive welfare state would suggest this isn't a very good argument...

Can you link to this information? Americans came from extremely hard conditions, much harder than anyone today experiences and there was not the level of violence and crime we see today. Perhaps you can pay off the violent criminals in the short term but in the long term the criminals will cause social breakdown. People always want more, and if violence and the threat of violence is how they get more that is what they will continue to do.

>In the long term isn't it economically better to get people out of this welfare culture so they can provide for themselves? Gangs aren't formed to feed starving people, they form because the culture is broken.

Then it's the culture that needs fixing, not the welfare.

>Arguably it's the welfare money that significantly led to the culture breakdown in the first place by destroying economic and social structure.

Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, et al. have excellent welfare, but no "gangs" of that style. So it's not the welfare that causes that phenomena.

In contrast, most developing world hellholes have little to no welfare, and huge gangs, violence and destroyed economic structures issues.

In fact the "have the community provide for itself" is how you get support structures like the mafia, the cartels, etc, substituting a state that doesn't help its people.

Welfare encourages a culture of dependency. Before welfare the social structure formed by religious and civic groups took care of charity and required more accountability and a change in mindset to go along with material aid.