News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses... by antisthenes on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @01:56PM (#14912982)
I can offer you the perspective of a small business employee that sells a number of products on Amazon without Prime fulfillment.

In your view, how much should you have paid for shipping for an item that you didn't want? Nothing?

Should the seller be responsible for shipping the item both ways?

There is already very little margin in selling commodity goods, especially when you consider Amazon takes 15% of gross value as a fee. Shipping in many cases changes the order from profitable to money-losing. If you try and price it in, you can't compete on cost which begs the question of why bother selling on Amazon in the first place.

The crux of the issue is this, though: Amazon doesn't give a shit about 3rd party sellers, nor can the 3rd party sellers provide the same level of customer service as Amazon can, mostly due to economies of scale. The whole 3rd party seller program is a testbed for Amazon, a research program to see how they operate and how Amazon can do it better and as soon as they realize how - the 3rd party sellers either get priced out by a race to the bottom with Amazon itself (they go directly to suppliers and cut everyone out) or by policies like these, which are ripe for abuse or eat further into seller margins to the point of operating at break-even or slightly in the red.

As a last note: Whenever I buy on Amazon, I buy Prime. The incentives of customers and 3rd party sellers are incompatible. If I were a customer for the goods that we are selling, I would never buy from our company.

Re:Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses... by sxates on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @02:46PM (#14913441)
Thanks for the perspective. I totally get it - which is why I didn't go on a rampage over my $90 pan not being up to my standards. I can sympathize with the sellers here (though I think the policies sometimes favor themselves over their customers) - BUT - as you've noted yourself, Amazon's scale has allowed them to do a lot better than the little guys. If this had been a Prime item, it would have been free return shipping and full refund, no questions asked. As a customer, why wouldn't I go for that? It makes the experience I had with a small seller seem shocking by comparison.

Instead, I'll either avoid the independent sellers, or just to to Sur le Table. So how do these sellers win?

Re:Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses... by antisthenes on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @03:04PM (#14913613)
The Amazon 3rd party seller system is not designed for these small sellers to win. It's designed for Amazon to see which products are in demand and how much customers are willing to pay along with gathering feedback from customer expectations.

It's more of a platform to see what works and what doesn't, at the expense of small businesses who wanted to sell on Amazon. At least that's my perspective. A 3-5% margin may be fine when you run a 100B business, have economies of scale and a world-class brand, but the same will spell disaster for a small business.

There are also a lot of dishonest 3rd party sellers who come and go like a swarm of locusts. Maybe they "win" in the short run by selling counterfeit goods and not honoring Amazon policies, but in the end they will lose also when Amazon bans non-prime fulfillment of orders (that day is coming sooner rather than later, my guess is before 2020)

Re:Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses... by jasonlaramburu on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @03:01PM (#14913591)
What value do 3rd party sellers actually provide to Amazon customers? Yes sometimes the price is lower, but that's usually because they bought the goods at a retail store auction for next to nothing (these auctions sell lots of returned merchandise sight unseen). Anyone running one of these businesses has to realize what they're doing is more than a little sketchy.
Re:Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses... by antisthenes on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @03:51PM (#14914003)
That's a very sweeping generalization that doesn't have much to do with reality.

The majority of 3rd party sellers by volume own their own websites outside of Amazon. The ones you described are tiny mom&pop stores that come and go by the thousand every year.

Re:Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses... by jasonlaramburu on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @04:01PM (#14914087)
Sorry I don't buy that. The only reason a consumer would choose a 3rd party seller is price. If Seller can beat Amazon (presumably the most efficient retailer on Earth) on price then Seller must have obtained the goods at below wholesale price.
Re:Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses... by jasonlaramburu on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @02:42PM (#14913404)
From the PoV of a company whose products get sold by 3rd party sellers on Amazon, it's a total disaster. They regularly sell used or returned items as 'new,' and most customers don't notice. They provide atrocious customer service. Amazon does nothing to police this. These sellers also do everything in their power to avoid processing a return. I don't want to crap on your business, but I hope these regulations push the less scrupulous 3rd party sellers back to eBay.