News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by rodgerd on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:08PM (#14904801)
Notable point: Red Hat are effectively declaring btrfs has no future.

From the release notes: "The Btrfs file system has been in Technology Preview state since the initial release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6. Red Hat will not be moving Btrfs to a fully supported feature and it will be removed in a future major release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux."

https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterp...

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by quicksilver03 on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @05:32PM (#14905577)
That's bad, Btrfs has really grown on me, especially the ability to mix drives of different sizes in a RAID configuration.

XFS is just not flexible enough, I don't like to be unable to shrink a partition once created.

It looks like I'll be back to ext4 and various kludges then.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by chungy on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @06:35PM (#14906090)
Mind that btrfs will remain in RHEL7, but as soon as you go to RHEL8... you could just build your own kernel. Or use the centosplus kernel which will almost surely include it (as they've been including various RH-disabled modules for RHEL6 and 7 already).
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by rodgerd on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @08:07PM (#14906687)
> That's bad, Btrfs has really grown on me, especially the ability to mix drives of different sizes in a RAID configuration.

That's nice, but the fact RAID 1 still is implemented with critical defects might help understand RH position.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by moonbug on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @08:00PM (#14906653)
Or, assuming you get over your partition resizing fetish, just stick with XFS. It's as close to bulletproof as you'll find on Linux.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by mkj on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @12:03AM (#14907817)
Yet to gain data checksums though.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by clem on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:16PM (#14904869)
I wonder if they'll be supporting ZFS on Linux now that it's gaining momentum?
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by ty_a on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:25PM (#14904959)
I highly doubt Red Hat will ever touch ZFS. Oracle and Red Hat have a very tenuous relationship.

I hope Red Hat will support bcachefs though. I think it's the most promising alternative FS.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by mattl on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:32PM (#14905018)
Unlikely, given the license of ZFS and its incompatibility with the GPL
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by merb on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:16PM (#14904879)
didn't they settled to xfs long ago? Isn't the default root fs on fedora xfs?
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by bubblethink on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:24PM (#14904953)
Yes, btrfs was a tech-preview, meaning use if you want with no support or future guarantees. It has been officially dropped from future plans now.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by lima on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:30PM (#14904997)
And they're working on adding CoW and deduplication to XFS.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by ty_a on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:37PM (#14905070)
Wow I didn't know that. Very interesting to hear. Hopefully Docker support is considered as well.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by lima on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @04:47PM (#14905149)
overlayfs + XFS works very well, so it's probably not a priority (wild guess)
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by rodgerd on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @08:10PM (#14906705)
XFS went through a tech preview -> support -> default over the RHEL 5/6/7 lifecycles.

The fact btrfs has been yanked from tech preview would tend to suggest feedback has been so bad that they believe it can never make it to being supportable.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by akulbe on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @05:02PM (#14905278)
I wonder why that's the case? is it not well-maintained?
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by lima on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @05:09PM (#14905346)
Running btrfs in production is still a nightmare in 2017.

At least the random kernel crashes stopped.

With proper care and feeding, it won't run out of metadata either but you need to monitor it closely and run nightly balances. Which probably kill your SSD.

Documentation sucks. Get used to monitor the btrfs IRC channel closely and deduce what to do and what not to do on which kernel version.

It works well for very particular use cases (file server with few random writes and much duplicate data). Cannot recommend it otherwise. Even Docker runs more stable on XFS.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by rodgerd on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @08:08PM (#14906693)
Have a look at the RAID 1 implementation.

If you have a 2-disk mirror and one disk fails, you can mount the remaining disk one more time to try to recover.

If you try and mount it a second time it is marked permanently read-only and can never be recovered. You need to dump the data and rebuild from scratch.

It's 2017. It's been in development for almost a decade, and getting the simplest RAID case correct hasn't worked.

Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by cestith on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @08:37PM (#14906844)
RAID 5 and 6 were found to be losing data without a drive going bad. I pulled all my data off to backup and restored it on a freshly built array under XFS. That's not something I enjoy doing too often.
Re:Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.4 Released by rodgerd on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @09:39PM (#14907203)
Yeah, having scrubs corrupt good data is basically the worst-case scenario for an FS whose selling point is checksumming for data integrity.

I ran btrfs for several years, and while the features are great (per-subvolume RAID policies, lightweight snapshots, unRAID-style RAID), I got sick of testing my backups regularly. I wouldn't be surprised if that's not uncommon.