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Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by ta201707 on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:01PM (#14832873)
Last year I was going through a long and grueling job search after taking time off for family reasons. I was based in the midwest after living around the country over the past decade for my recent three jobs. It was the first time I felt totally untethered and able to look at any US locations for a new job. I work in scientific computing and machine learning, so there were various employment hubs to consider.

Knowing the cost of living on both coasts in large cities, and wanting to be close to my midwest family, I really badly wanted a job in a techie midwest place. Pittsburgh and Minneapolis were the top choices, but I also considered everything I could in Chicago, Madison, Dayton, Ann Arbor, Detroit, Grand Rapids, and a handful of other one-offs.

I have to say I was so thoroughly disappointed by the types of jobs and job offers, particularly salary and compensation -- even adjusting for cost of living -- that it was just not doable.

The companies were pitching the same cramped, over-crowded "collaborative" open offices despite private office space being so much cheaper. The salaries were genuinely around half of what they are in Boston and New York for similar work, probably less than half compared with SF. It seemed that bonuses and significant equity compensation were also pared down.

In the end, I took a new job in New York and decided that living with any of the perfectly workable strategies to reduce cost of living here (mainly, live with roommates however you must to have a short commute) was absolutely worth it to make 2x salary, greater bonus potential, and greater equity, and, realistically, greater chances at career growth.

Don't get me wrong. I actively didn't want this choice and wanted the comfort of Pittsburgh, the possibility of actual home ownership, more private space (except that damn open plan office man), and easy drive to my extended family.

It was just not exonomically attractive to pay the cost of earning roughly 40% of the conpensation for this, especially compounded. Maybe if I am lucky to rise to a senior position in the future and can transfer with less of a pay cut, it would be good.

To put some numbers on it, I am an ML engineer, somewhere between midlevel and senior with about 6 years of experience and a graduate degree, and I was looking for non-management and non-research-focused ML engineering roles across companies like (formerly) Silicon Graphics, Uber, DuoLingo, Google, random start-ups, some finance and insurance firms in Chicago, and PNC Bank outside of Cleveland.

I earned just under 200k at my most recent long-term role in Boston prior to my current role in NYC, not including cash bonus and equity.

The best offer I found out of all the midwest searching was in Minneapolis, at 130k with small anount of equity and no bonus. Every other company suggested that, for their area, pushing 100k was the best they could do.

I've lived in the midwest a lot, and I know that financially, 220k - 250k plus career growth in NYC is probably better, in pure earnings terms, than say 120k in Pittsburgh. Obviously other considerations could make a midwestern city attractive despite lower earnings, but the gap was big enough for me that I decided the cramped city rat race will have to do for now.

My general feeling was that a lot of the new focus on the midwest as a tech job region was more or less a rebranding event, trying to rebrand jobs to enable companies to pay lower salaries and reduced compensation for the same value proposition from the engineer, even after adjusting for cost of living.

Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by autokad on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:47PM (#14833142)
i grew up in pittsburgh, and had to leave because there simply wasn't a job for me - (most of the cmu startups threw my resume in the trash as soon as it wasn't cmu) though that was a long time ago and things have changed.

however, the numbers still show slim pickings. search glass door or any job posting website, you will find that philadelphia (not a tech city) has ~5x the amount of positions available. NYC has 15x. a lot of people retort about per capita openings, but I don't think that matters as much as people think. people do have geographic preferences but also apply to many other cities, and CMU graduates more engineers than pittsburgh has data scientist openings.

as you said, sure you have a 'lower' cost of living, but the jobs in pittsburgh pay significantly less.

pittsbugh is not a walk-able city, its one of the least walk-able ones that I know. Its almost 100% certainty you will need a car if you live/work in the city, and if you normally get around without a car, moving to pittsburgh and needing to buy/upkeep a car will wipe away most of those cost of living savings.

traffic and parking in pittsburgh is a nightmare. you can be in a car and see the building you want to get to, but not make it within 30 minutes.

Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by joehosteny on Monday July 24, 2017 @09:00AM (#14838030)
Parking downtown is bad, but I'd be curious what cities you are comparing it to with respect to traffic. I grew up in Chicago and lived in the Bay Area for a few years, and those are both far worse. A lot of the newer tech jobs are fairly close to downtown, the strip or the east end (both my wife and I are able to walk to work almost every day).
Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by Game_Ender on Sunday July 23, 2017 @01:15PM (#14833270)
You are assuming just because it's Pittsburgh pay from companies like Google, Apple, Amazon and Uber will not be competitive. If there is any discount on salary it's on the 10-15% range, not 50%.
Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by autokad on Sunday July 23, 2017 @01:36PM (#14833366)
software developers for amazon in Pittsburgh make between 56 and 107k, 78k mean (glassdoor).

Sanfrancisco, its 76 - 131k, 102k mean.

Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by chebureki on Sunday July 23, 2017 @01:57PM (#14833474)
A side note. The cost of living here in Pittsburgh is much, much lower than in SF or in NYC. According to a Cost of Living calculator, to maintain the same living standard in Pittsburgh at $60K, you have to make $137K in SF.
Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by getemback on Sunday July 23, 2017 @03:32PM (#14833958)
In the internal Google salary survey, controlling for level and tenure, salaries in Pittsburgh are within 10% of salaries in Mountain View. Moving to Pittsburgh is similar to getting an enormous raise. However "controlling for level" masks the fact that Pittsburgh is Siberia, far from the palace court where it is harder to be promoted to a high level.
Re:Pittsburgh Gets a Tech Makeover by sjg007 on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:15PM (#14832963)
Well if it's the best they can do it's they can do. Did you have multiple offers to leverage? Also how big was your network in the area? Sometimes you have to start something as well in some places to get what you want. Anyway thanks for sharing. Nice to hear that Minneapolis is a techie place.