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Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 13, 2017 @04:44PM (#14765034)
My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by erikpukinskis on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:00PM (#14765187)
That's because your house is designed with active cooling as a presumption. If your house was designed to utilize passive cooling effects (thermal mass, green roof, evaporative cooling, overhangs, shades, airflow compression, etc) your bedroom wouldn't get that hot.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by lfam on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:10PM (#14765280)
Early Florida homes (19th and early 20th century) were built by people who understood passive cooling techniques.

But, the invention of AC and the development of super-strong residential building codes in response to destructive hurricanes has steered the last ~70 years of home construction towards sealed concrete boxes with air conditioning infrastructure built in.

Many of the classic passive cooling techniques of the old Florida homes are not even legal now. The benefit is your house doesn't collapse in a hurricane.

Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by DrScump on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:30PM (#14765426)

  the development of super-strong residential building codes in response to destructive hurricanes
plus the fact that all construction is much better insulated than the pre-war installed base.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by lfam on Thursday July 13, 2017 @07:39PM (#14766231)
True. It's the same thing in some cases. For example, you can no longer leave openings between the walls and roof, which used to let hot air out the top of your house. Talk about poorly insulated!
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:17PM (#14765328)
> That's because your house is designed with active cooling as a presumption.

No, it isn't. I have an enormous oak tree that overhangs the southern roof. My windows have a very low level of solar radiation they allow through. The ambient air temp at night is almost 80F. The house is built of concrete block, and stores heat during the day, releasing it at night. We're routinely at 60-80% humidity.

Just waiting for some solar shingles to be available (hurry up Elon!). Don't much care how long I run the AC every day as long as I net out 0 with solar generation.

Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by mikekchar on Thursday July 13, 2017 @07:31PM (#14766188)
Not the OP and while I don't want to denigrate the way you live, I want to react the suggestion that other ways of living are impossible. Today, where I live it the high is going to be 32C (90F) with humidity of 87%. Pretty normal for this time of year. Usually in the summer (a little bit later on) we'll have a couple of weeks where the temperature never gets below 27-28C (80F). Been living here for about 10 years without AC. I'm not a spring chicken, either.

Construction makes a huge difference -- especially airflow. Whoever made my current apartment was a genius because in the winter, the south side gets sun through the windows for about 6 hours, while in the summer there is no direct sunlight in any window. My previous apartment was an oven.

North American attitudes to seasonal temperatures are different than where I live now. In the winter here, the lows here are near freezing (1-2C), and we always have a few days in the summer well over 40C (105F) (luckily once it gets over 35, the humidity drops quite a bit). It's quite normal here not to heat in the winter, nor cool in the summer. Experiencing the seasons is considered to be "culturally enlightening" ;-) And joking aside, I've found that I like this way of living. Like you, I would never have thought it possible before I tried it, though.

Having said that, you can't always do it. I need some heat in the winter these days, due to health conditions. I worry about my mother in law who, at 80, usually refuses to run her AC in the summer. You do need to be careful of your health. You also need to be sensitive to the fact that architects build for the prevailing culture. Where I live, they work very hard to deal with this kind of thing. Where you live, they will probably optimise for something else.

Like I said, it's a very cultural thing -- and that's the beauty of the world. There are different cultures and values, each with their own charms. It's totally fair to say that you like the way you live now (and more power to you!) But it's not impossible (nor bad) to live differently.

Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by astrodust on Thursday July 13, 2017 @06:45PM (#14765963)
As good as those features might be, you're still dependent on active cooling to make it liveable. There are other measures that have been used for millenia in desert and jungle environments where the house itself encourages particular paths of air flow that bring in cooler, fresh air and vent hot, stale air.

We've got the technology now to evolve this even further by doing computer simulations to come up with better designs, and by techniques like 3D house printing with concrete to make intricate ventilation systems that can circulate air through the floors and up through walls with zero energy cost.

Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 13, 2017 @06:57PM (#14766013)
At high humidity, you're still going to be hot and drenched in sweat. The only solution is energy efficient thermal transfer (AC, heat pump, etc) and dehumidification.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by astrodust on Thursday July 13, 2017 @07:00PM (#14766029)
There are ways of doing this that don't involve expending energy, but it requires re-thinking the very concept of the modern house.

A thousand years ago you had to build things this way, you had no alternative, but now it's taken for granted that air-conditioning will solve all problems.

Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 13, 2017 @07:26PM (#14766167)
For sure, but I can't get insurance (hurricane or otherwise) on a home built to 1000 year previous standards. Do I care if the house can't cool itself naturally? I don't; I can't get a mortgage on it because I can't get insurance on it if its not built to current code. Hence why we run into this problem (which will be solved with more efficient AC and renewable energy).
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by erikpukinskis on Monday July 17, 2017 @12:53PM (#14790284)
Yes, this is the crux of the problem. Your state made it illegal for you to build a proper home.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by toomuchtodo on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @08:53PM (#14861758)
The state didn't; market forces did (ie insurance companies).
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by zabuni on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:11PM (#14765293)
evaporative cooling? thermal mass? Did you not read the parent? How is a thermal mass going to help a place that has a low temperature of 90? And how will evaporative cooling work in a place with 80% humidity?
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by erikpukinskis on Monday July 17, 2017 @12:58PM (#14790333)
Ground temp is lower than 90 so thermal mass can still help. You just need to design for proper insulation, exposure, shades, etc.

Evap at 80% humidity is about half the rate at 50%. Still functional.

Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by jonknee on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:07PM (#14765251)
The greenest building you can imagine would still be uncomfortably hot in Tampa during the Summer without A/C. It's a hot and humid place.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by losvedir on Thursday July 13, 2017 @04:51PM (#14765105)
> My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

You obviously could live there... it would just be unpleasant.

I lived a year in Singapore where temperatures were in the 80-90 range. I stayed on-campus at NUS and was lucky to have a room with A/C, but it wasn't common. The majority of students make do with big fans and windows. I remember working next to a campus Starbucks outside, marveling at how well designed it was to make students moderately comfortable without A/C. There was an enormous fan, and the area was covered and designed to facilitate air flow.

After my time there I came back to the U.S. and can much more readily handle persistently hot temperatures. It's fairly unusual to expect it to be cool all the time.

I also just got back from a trip to Oman where it was routinely above 90 or 100 all day long, and people there make do without A/C as well.

Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by illegalsmile on Thursday July 13, 2017 @06:07PM (#14765722)
Turns out that the GP could adapt to sleeping in 90F temperatures as the human body is adaptable. After a few weeks you'd be used to it and it wouldn't matter. The Creek/Seminole did it in the southeast.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by lucb1e on Thursday July 13, 2017 @04:57PM (#14765168)
Yeah you could, if you weren't so used to AC. But do you want to live there if you're not used to the heat?
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by MisterBastahrd on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:02PM (#14765206)
I went 5 years without A/C in my car in southeastern Louisiana. I was fine in the daytime heat and humidity, even in the summer, but I would never want to sleep in it. I suppose if everyone got hammocks it'd be fine, but beds are insulators. Your body heat works against you.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by kirrent on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:31PM (#14765430)
My Australian bedroom is often that hot, if not hotter during the summer months. I have a fan. You get used to it.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by sandov on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:03PM (#14765215)
90F = 32.2 °C for anyone wondering, I just had to look it up.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by undersuit on Thursday July 13, 2017 @05:34PM (#14765453)
I wonder how people lived in Florida for thousands of years then.
Re:Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwi... by astrodust on Thursday July 13, 2017 @06:46PM (#14765966)
Nearly naked.