How I didn't become a SoundClouder

Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by latch on Monday July 10, 2017 @07:20AM (#14734910)

As a layperson, I'm surprised this is legal.

First and foremost, why wouldn't you be entitled to whatever notice/pay your employment contract stipulates? Even in an at-will environment, I imagine if the contract says the employer must give you 4 weeks of notice, well, that's what they owe you.

Furthermore, at some point, hiring people that you have good reason to suspect you won't be able to employ must become fraudulent, no?

I'd talk to a lawyer unless the contract was never signed.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by bartj3 on Monday July 10, 2017 @07:45AM (#14735039)

I don't know how it's in Germany but I'd imagine it to be pretty much the same as in the Netherlands: most if not all contracts will have a trial period where the contract can be terminated by both parties on the second.

This is the risk of changing a job, even more so if the new job is in another country.

edit: based on some other comments in this thread the German law on this does not seem to be the same as the Dutch laws.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by romanovcode on Monday July 10, 2017 @07:53AM (#14735083)

In Germany it's 2 weeks. So they should pay him at least 2 weeks :)

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by mkde on Wednesday July 12, 2017 @10:05AM (#14752582)

No, it's 6 months.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by YorickPeterse on Monday July 10, 2017 @07:43AM (#14735022)

Typically in the EU (or at least here in The Netherlands) you can be fired on the spot (without a notice ahead of time) in the first month (usually referred to as a "trial month"). I suspect this is what SoundCloud took advantage of.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by Jakob on Monday July 10, 2017 @07:51AM (#14735076)

That’s Netherland-specific. EU countries have very different probationary period terms. In Germany you have at least 2 weeks notice during the probation period which is usually six months long.

OP should ask a lawyer. I think this is not legal.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by alex_duf on Monday July 10, 2017 @09:14AM (#14735587)

It's the same in France as well, you can be fired any time the first four months, no reason needed. Equally you can also leave any time you want if you don't like the job.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by oh_sigh on Monday July 10, 2017 @11:49AM (#14736996)

So normally, you can't leave a job you don't like after 1 month? What is the process for quitting like? Here in the US, I've only ever seen '2 weeks notice' be a courtesy - you could just stop coming to work, or announce that the current day is your last.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by michaelt on Monday July 10, 2017 @12:45PM (#14737539)

  What is the process for quitting like?

From the perspective of professional employment, e.g. programmers:

If the employee and company part on bad terms, they can still part pretty fast. There's no mechanism to force someone to come into work (besides the threat of a bad reference) and if they did come in, there's not much stopping them spending all day distracting people and moaning about how much they hate the place.

If the employee and company are parting on good terms, the employee will hand in a written notice then work their notice period, with the possibility of ending it sooner by mutual consent. The employee generally wants to finish up what they can and hand over what they can't because they like their job and co-workers.

Needless to say, if you're a senior guy who's been at the company for years, there'll be more stuff you know and responsibilities you've assumed that you need to pass on to other people. For junior employees and recent hires, there will obviously be much less.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by falsedan on Monday July 10, 2017 @12:17PM (#14737263)

That's appropriate in 'right to work' states (which is most of them): you can stand up in a meeting & announce "I quit" (or hear "you're fired"), and that's sufficient notification to end your employment. In other states and countries, usually there is a notification period written into your contract which stipulates how much warning you must give the other party before terminating the contract (rule of thumb is 2 weeks + one week per year of employment).

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by vonmoltke on Monday July 10, 2017 @01:51PM (#14738161)

"Right to work" is about forced union membership (i.e. "union shops"). What you are describing is "at-home employment". It's a mess of state laws and exceptions, but the only state that doesn't really operate that way is Montana.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by falsedan on Monday July 10, 2017 @06:19PM (#14740184)

You're right, that legal these refer to different concepts. My US employer didn't worry about distinguishing between them when I went through harassment/discrimination training.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by kgwgk on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:35PM (#14738502)

You probably mean "at will".

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by vonmoltke on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @12:32AM (#14741593)

I did. Nice catch.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by rasjani on Monday July 10, 2017 @09:47AM (#14735826)

Same in Finland.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by johnnyfaehell on Monday July 10, 2017 @07:53AM (#14735087)

I believe in Germany it's mandatory to give at least two weeks notice for the first 6 months. I also believe they legally can't cancel the contract before it starts, so notice must start on the contract start date. So he would be entitled to two weeks pay.

Real question is it worth chasing them for it.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by w458cmau on Monday July 10, 2017 @09:07AM (#14735529)

http://www.kanzlei-hasselbach.de/2014/kuendigung-und-kuendig...

Two weeks notice during probation period. - What's more relevant:

If they actually signed a legal contract they also need to provide him with a written and signed contract termination. As far as I understand a signed contract exists and no written notice has been delivered. The notice period is counted starting from the day of the delivery of that physical mail.

https://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/die-kuendigung-vor-arbeits...

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by johnnyfaehell on Monday July 10, 2017 @12:35PM (#14737454)

It would be great if he turned up to the office saying "Legally I still work for you guys and I've not been given anything in writing to state otherwise. So... When do I get paid?" :D

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by pawelkomarnicki on Monday July 10, 2017 @08:05AM (#14735159)

Employer is entitled to recompensation if the employee does that (cancel just before starting), unless there's a clause in the contract, so it apparently works both ways.

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by legohead on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:08PM (#14738286)

1) Send amazing offer letters to your competitor's workers.

2) After they've quit, moved, uprooted their life, but before they actually start working -- fire them.

3) Win!

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Re:How I didn't become a SoundClouder by valuearb on Monday July 10, 2017 @01:24PM (#14737919)

What contract? He signed an offer letter. An offer letter means that, if neither you or employer change minds in interim, you will have a job on a specific date with specific title, pay and benefits.

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