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Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by gnicholas on Thursday July 06, 2017 @05:48PM (#14714239)
We've had issues with Stripe as well. For example, one of our customers forgot they were paying (happily) for a subscription to our software, and they flagged a recurring charge with their CC company. When Stripe notified us of the flag, we quickly showed them server logs showing that the customer was still actively using our software. We also provided the original purchase information and screenshot of what the user saw right before making the purchase.

Stripe said we lost the dispute because we didn't provide the customer's driver's license. (What?!) We persisted and at this point contacted the customer, who readily admitted that he was still using our software and was happy to pay for it. Unfortunately, even this was not enough for Stripe, who refused to reverse their levy on us. They claimed that someone had stolen the CC from its true owner, signed up for our software, and was emailing us from a fraudulent email address.

At this point, the customer (who was really nice) called their CC company several times to say that it was all a misunderstanding and that the charge was justified. But Stripe refused to accept this as proof. They might not be as bad as PayPal, but they're not saints either.

Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by phil21 on Thursday July 06, 2017 @07:06PM (#14714693)
To be honest, this sounds like the experience you would have with any other merchant bank. They have zero impact on if you win the dispute or not, and most of those charges from them are likely (marked up) pass-thru.

The deeper you go into this world the more upset you are going to get. Basically the answer in pretty much absolutely any dispute or anything out of the ordinary is "merchant pays". It's not worth your time to dispute it in the manner you did, as you will likely find out over time.

Your story sounds like at least a dozen merchant banks I've worked with in the past in various capacities, I'm honestly surprised they even spent that much time talking to you about it. Things may be changing this day in age, but 10 years ago basically any card not present transaction that was disputed you automatically lost, and the Visa or Mastercard network would charge you the $35 for the trouble of you being defrauded by a customer :)

Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by gnicholas on Thursday July 06, 2017 @07:13PM (#14714730)
Yeah, it seems the only point in responding is to avoid being flagged as a fraudster. It is unclear whether Stripe's fraud detection system treats you differently if you (1) are flagged by a customer and do not respond; or (2) are flagged by a customer, respond substantively, but are nonetheless denied. If these have the same impact on your risk profile as a vendor, it is 100% not worth it to respond.
Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by phil21 on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:38PM (#14715618)
Good point, I didn't really consider that aspect. I truly do wonder now if it matters at all!
Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by watter on Saturday July 08, 2017 @07:30AM (#14725038)
I'm convinced this is how some of the payment gateways make their money.

With one gateway after we switched providers and took the interface out of production we received about 5 fraudulant payments in the month that followed. Someone had hacked the bank's "iframe" service that we did not use and even though we only had the account open for a potential rollback we were still liable for $20 x 5 in fees. It was entirely the bank's fault.

Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by edwinwee on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:34PM (#14714513)
Hi there, I work at Stripe. Sadly, the cardholder's bank ultimately makes the decision on who wins disputes, and we don't have the ability to reverse them. For some context, when a dispute is initiated, the bank automatically refunds the payment, and provides a window for you to submit evidence—and then they decide who wins the dispute. Frankly, this system's pretty antiquated—and oftentimes, they do favor the cardholder, but we want to help you fight back in any way we can (both in preventing disputes, and also responding). I'd love to take a closer look into this if you email me at [email protected]
Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by gnicholas on Thursday July 06, 2017 @07:04PM (#14714679)
> Sadly, the cardholder's bank ultimately makes the decision on who wins disputes, and we don't have the ability to reverse them

You absolutely have the ability to not charge me a $25 fine (which appears to go to Stripe) when all of the evidence from the customer and the vendor show that it is a valid charge – and the customer has in fact told the bank to reverse the flag on the charge. What basis is there for charging a fine for something when the underlying charge has been reinstated by the customer?

Instead of a reasonable process, I got the runaround for months and bogus excuses (e.g., driver's license request). As another commenter mentions, your dispute resolution system is so poorly set up that it's not worth jumping through your hoops — just to lose at the end of the day. I am actively looking at an alternative processor because this was such a hassle.

Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by CodeWriter23 on Friday July 07, 2017 @10:05AM (#14718379)
The driver's license request is seriously absurd given Stripe controls the UI for collecting payment details, and that UI does not ask for D/L information.
Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by cft on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:23PM (#14714443)
We disputed perhaps 1500 chargebacks with Paypal and won only 2 or 3. Chargebacks for "virtual goods" are unwinnable. Be sure to keep your chargeback rate under 1% by the number of payments, otherwise reserves will be applied.
Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by dplgk on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:14PM (#14714371)
What load of horseshit on Stripe's part. From anecdotes I've read on HN, they're the same as PayPal or any other payment company just with a newer brand and better API.
Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by exclusiv on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:54PM (#14714624)
I've processed over $1.5M on Stripe for one of my companies and lost 11 of 11 disputes. I didn't support evidence for most though.

I have another startup which has processed only 30k and had 9 disputes. I won one dispute (4 charges) but only because I got the customer to agree in writing that he would withdraw and I would refund. I submitted a screenshot of my conversation with him in Intercom. He withdrew it and I refunded him as soon as I could.

Seems like it isn't really worth the time to submit evidence unless it's for a lot of money or the customer agrees to withdraw and calls off their dispute. Def. in the customer's favor.

Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by CodeWriter23 on Friday July 07, 2017 @10:32AM (#14718601)
My question to you, the payee identifier configured for your company's Stripe profile (what appears on the customer's CC statement), did it make the product name obvious?
Re:What happens when you pay PayPal $15k in fees? by nikanj on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:07PM (#14714338)
The margins in CC processing are so low, the companies need to pull stuff like this to stay solvent :(