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Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by jackmott on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @04:27PM (#14705830)
>Take the "black lives matter" movement. If we followed the OPs advice, they should just protest that "all lives matter" instead,

That might have been more effective, even if it isn't as fair or correct.

Hard to say, but in the lead up to the the latest US presidential election, there were many movements that I absolutely agreed with that I wish had shut up for just 1 year, because I could seem them fueling resentment on 'the other side' much more than energizing their own side. The rural side of my family was in the middle of being completely out of their minds over having a black president and gay marriage made legal when media started pushing for black lives matter and transgenders in bathrooms. They revolted, and now we have a moron as a president. "Deepened the divide" indeed.

This may be an evolution in my own thinking, that there can be more important things than being "right". Think long term.

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @06:52PM (#14706784)
I think the main problem with this line of thinking is that "if only they could have waited 1 year" ends up translating to 5 years, then 10, or never. MLK went through this with Lyndon Johnson, who also wanted him to wait due to political expediency.

It's also a lot easier to tell someone else to wait when you're not the one that has had their rights violated. If these are truly rights and not privileges, then waiting any time at all really makes no sense.

I do understand what you're saying, thinking about the bigger picture, but I think it's dangerous path. We have to accept some short-term losses for the greater good. It could be argued that Obamacare was the reason Congress was handed over to the GOP. But now look at how the discussion has changed in America about healthcare -- it's less about whether people should be covered and mostly about what it's going to cost in premiums.

Just a hypothetical, but can you imagine any of the gun owners in America going along with a "just wait" strategy if Obama had banned guns?

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by rectang on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @04:32PM (#14705864)
The Civil War begat the Reconstruction. Two steps forward, one step back.
Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by larsiusprime on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @06:13PM (#14706523)
Now imagine if we could have ended slavery and found a way to resolve things peacefully without escalating into a brutal war that killed 2% of the population, with massive suffering on both sides.
Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by phlakaton on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @11:58PM (#14708036)
I'm personally convinced we couldn't. The blood was already on our hands when we decided to start counting slaves as 3/5 of a non-voting person.

Of course, those who passed this compromise may have been thinking: well let's not rock the boat or we won't have a Constitution! So maybe let's wait a year or five and revisit...

How did that work out for them? Or the slaves?

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by omegaworks on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @08:25PM (#14707287)
>They revolted

Hardly[0]. Don't believe the hype. The GOP won using gerrymandering, voter-suppression tactics and clever electoral positioning. Its tools: Voter ID laws and propaganda that deactivated potential voters.

0. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-electi...

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by tracker1 on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @08:33PM (#14707324)
The VAST majority of voters have ID, and it's relatively easy to get one. Most people need one to function in society, and in many states you register to vote in the same place you get an ID anyhow. Perhaps you can point to a few examples where more than one or two people were singled out who wanted to vote but were unable to because of the requirement for ID.

It's been shown that voter fraud in several districts was much higher than previously expected or proposed.

I'm against a lot of the propaganda, and frankly the gerrymandering pisses me off to no end. But saying that requiring an ID to vote is excessive is pretty much out of line with the reality of living in society today.

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by zimpenfish on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:34AM (#14711163)
https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-su...

>  In states where the voter identification laws did not change between ’12 and ’16, turnout was up +1.3%. In states where ID laws changed to non-strict (AL, NH, RI) turnout increased less, and was only up by +0.7%. In states where ID laws changed to strict (MS, VA, WI) turnout actually decreased by – 1.7%.

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by omegaworks on Thursday July 06, 2017 @03:16PM (#14713070)
Vastly more people "live in society" then what you apparently see in your bubble. The right to vote is guaranteed to every citizen in this country. EVERY citizen. Even the old, the infirm, the disabled, the slave-descended, and the naturalized.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-black-man-brought-3-form...

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24490932/ns/politics-decision_08/t...

When you can vote with a gun license and not with a student ID, you know exactly what they're doing.

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by tracker1 on Thursday July 06, 2017 @04:52PM (#14713847)
And travel is also a right, but these same 0.03% of the population would have similar issues getting a driver's license. Also, the guy in the Wisconsin article had to deal with a law that changed over 5 years prior.. you're saying that 5 years isn't enough time to get a state issued ID?

Regarding gun license vs. student id, student ids don't indicate nation of birth, or non-citizenship. Though, I don't think a gun license should either. But I'm not in favor of gun licensing as a general rule.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone's struggle here, but I wouldn't expect to put off getting my ID renewed for however long, then take care of it right before voting. Depending on residence, it might be easier to get an absentee ballot. Beyond this, not every state has enacted voter laws the same, or made it nearly as difficult to get a state issued ID.

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by omegaworks on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:34PM (#14714511)
> Air travel is a right

It comes down to a question of fundamentally, who are we as a people? Air travel doesn't define who we are as Americans. We believe, fundamentally, that citizens have the unalienable, inviolable right to democratically elect their representatives in government. It's literally [EDIT: We've fought long and hard for it to be] in the contract :)

>It is not hard for me, therefore it is not hard. These people should have just had the foresight, resources and knowledge of their local regulations to prepare all the documentation they needed to vote beforehand.

I hope by stating it this way you see the strategy for what it is: a formula for denying citizens--with the right to vote--the ability to do so.

It's a classic onboarding funnel problem. Ask any Product Engineer worth their salt: if you're trying to get people to do a thing: buy a product, click a button, etc, you minimize the number of barriers to that action. This does the opposite, for no good reason.

>Beyond this, not every state has enacted voter laws the same, or made it nearly as difficult to get a state issued ID. [Therefore it is not a problem]

Remember Trump only won because certain key states swung by tiny margins. These states resurrected Jim Crow Voting Restriction laws, sold them as a solution to a problem that doesn't statistically occur, and affected the outcome in real, measurable ways. (See zimpenfish's response.)

It matters. And the GOP is gearing up to take the strategy national.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/no-drivers...

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by tracker1 on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @08:59PM (#14707418)
Perhaps better questions... do you have ID? do YOU know anyone without ID who is registered to vote?
Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by refurb on Wednesday July 05, 2017 @09:06PM (#14707445)
Trump won because he ran a better campaign. It's that simple.

And people voted for him because they liked what he had to say. Not sure why you're looking for some magical reason why he was elected.

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by omegaworks on Thursday July 06, 2017 @03:30PM (#14713185)
>It's that simple.

It's never that simple :)

What does "better campaign" mean exactly?

Re:I'm not a Woman in Tech by johnsonjo on Thursday July 06, 2017 @12:39AM (#14708166)
Atleast here in Utah (which is a Republican state btw) I had a few friends who were voting Trump to make sure the Supreme Court wasn't too far left.