'Asking out co-workers is a huge no-no' - to me this feels almost anti-humanist to the point where business is truly more important than our own lives, our being, our existence and our own free will. There is a massive difference between asking out co-workers and sexual harassment.

I agree. Answers like the above one indicate a level of dystopia/fear that itself is concerning. Friendship on any level is highly dependent on proximity in space and time. We need to be aware of how our righteous minds work and stop throwing stones all over the place.

Exactly my feelings, I wouldn't hire someone into my team that I didn't think couldn't become my friend should the situation play out as such, it just seems logical to me.

That sounds like pretty dysfunctional hiring process, no matter what gender of candidate.

As a humanist, I disagree. This is my reasoning: Unless the feelings are mutual, asking someone out at work can have negative consequences for the person you're asking, even if your intentions were good. You can't control their feelings, but you can control your actions. Also, believe it or not, your romantic options far outstrip your employment options. Asking people out at work just seems easier but it's quite complicated.

>Unless the feelings are mutual

That's the whole point of asking someone out -- to find out whether the feelings are mutual.

Yes, that's part of my point - that's why it's called /asking/, a world where people are not free to ask - I can only imagine would result in a world where people take, and that - I think we've all whitnessed at times.

If you two barely know each other and never even really talked, then they are unlikely to be mutual. I mean, they are even unlikely to be one sided.

This story is not about couple where two people were fond of each other and started relationship. This is about sending text messages out of cold to women he barely know, who never shown interest and you have power to hire or not. That has nothing to do with love.

I think there's been a misunderstanding, I was making comments about general workplaces - not about the situation in the article.

Maybe you need to step back a bit and think about this a little more clearly. The issue here isn't the supremacy of business over the individual; it's whether or not it's a good idea for an individual to behave this way because doing so may harm their lives, being, existance, free will, or all of the above of the other person.

I mean, it's OK to be naked, but it's a bad idea to be naked in a public park. We don't assume that means that the municipal government has total supremacy over your being and free will and is anti-humanist.

>If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development.

Then a very, very significant portion (quite possibly close to half of the population, or approaching thereof in some fields) have personal life developmental problems......or....it could just be that your world view or definition of "appropriate" is a bit off. Which one of those situations is more likely?

Since we are talking about highly male dominated field, his definition is right. They have problem and there is not enough female programmers for them all. And even if they would marry one, they won't spend time with their children and all care will be on her - meaning that they need traditional women who has little carrer ambitions and is simultaneously programmer.

It just so happens that traditional women tend to chose more feminine professions and people with little carrer ambitions tend to prefer slower workplace.

So, good luck.

Give us a break, it's not a huge no-no. One of the most lasting TV series of all time was based entirely on co-worker romances (The Office). I know multiple girls and guys who met their SOs as coworkers.

You may think it's lame (I do too fwiw), but it's still clearly acceptable almost everywhere, so I don't appreciate your gatekeeping.

I don't see how I'm "gatekeeping" by merely answering a question by giving my honest opinion and then pointing out a tactful way to go about doing something I personally would not do.

The version I responded to lead with "Asking out coworkers is a huge no-no," which is pretty clearly gatekeeping.

This is an interesting blend of rigid paranoia and moralistic finger wagging.

It's not as black and white as you try and portray it. Sure, if the other person says "sorry, I'm busy", that's a definite no. But what if they say is "sorry I'm busy, perhaps some other time"? Are they actually busy and do they actually mean that? Or is it a polite rejection?

At this point, you need to figure out based on body language which one they mean. If you guess wrong and ask again, you're a sexual harasser. If the original conversation was over text and you have no body language other than emojis you're more likely to guess wrong. Nice going, sexual harasser.

And I think it's safe to say that many women will refuse to even consider asking a man out. It's entirely on the guy to initiate everything. Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who spends most of their time at work. In this thread I've seen jibes about how such people should get a life, but let's admit for a second that that's not easy. Such people have a choice - ask out a coworker or remain alone for a long while. In a situation like that, I can understand how they'd be strongly inclined towards interpreting "some other time" as an opportunity rather than a rejection.

That dude will be alone whether he technically has girlfriend or not. By your own description, he spends all the time in work, lets assume working. So they get maybe cofee break together anyway. If he is not working majority of the time he is in work, then maybe he should go socialize elsewhere so that he does not slow other people's work with socialising. There is nothing more irritating than having late meeting or having to work weekend, because basically dude who was supposed to do code review socialize instead of working.

This dude wants it both ways. He wants to be seen as super hard worker, hero who is all the time working - and at the same time he wants to have non work life experiences. So he wants workplace to become like a bar or playground. Then the workplace becomes ineffective but we all get to pretend we are hard workers.

> In a situation like that, I can understand how they'd be strongly inclined towards interpreting "some other time" as an opportunity rather than a rejection.

But then she gets blamed for "not being direct enough" - including here on hacker news. Altrough the issue is not that he did not get it, issue is that he really really does not want to hear the no.

I mean, I get the wishful thinking and dont mind relationship between people, but don't then chalk the persistent dude behavior on girls not being clear or direct enought.

> At this point, you need to figure out based on body language which one they mean.

Or you could ask for clarification. To get a definite answer, you should not ask the same kind of question that got you an ambiguous response last time, but instead directly address that ambiguity.

That's not how romantic relationship work, asking for clarification of ambiguities in a phase where 90% of things done and said are pure ambiguity

> I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no

No way. It's a case by case basis. If someone legitimately seems interested in you, and you are interested in them, there's nothing wrong with asking them if they want to get a bite to eat or something once. Baby steps. It's just inappropriate to immediately reach for the "let's go out" or a romantic advance, and especially inappropriate to "pursue" someone. This is true in almost every social sphere, not just the workplace. It's called being a gentleman.

The idea is to be a gentleman, not a creep. Whether at a bar or at the park or at work.

The only difference as far as the workplace is if you have some sort of position of power above the other employee. Even if you somehow maintain complete impartiality to them, others will probably not see it that way and think it unfair to them. Not to mention that 9.9/10 times someone doesn't want to be hit on by their boss.

You gotta understand, for many people their work life and personal life are the same. A lot of happy couples met in the workplace.

That really depends. At my current startup there are three "<Company> couples".

Let's see how long that lasts after the company is done being a startup.