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Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by norikki on Saturday July 01, 2017 @02:47PM (#14678362)
"Globalization helped bolster economies around the world, including China’s, and is now allowing a class of wealthy people and companies from those economies to invest in the United States, creating jobs in depressed regions like Ohio."

So instead of Americans owning American companies, and employing 100% American labor, most of the factories have shut down, and the ones that are left are owned and operated by the Chinese and employ a large fraction of foreign workers, although not a majority. How on Earth is this better? The globalists at The Atlantic have clearly outdone themselves with this backwards logic.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by deanCommie on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:06PM (#14678446)
Better for who - better for Americans? Or better for the world?

This is the free market in action. It has dictated people want chinese goods more at their price point than american goods at theirs.

The overall quality of life worldwide has gone up. 96% of the world's population - 7.2 billion people are not American.

If you are a human being you should be happy humanity is better rather than selfishly worrying about the 4% of the world whose lives improved less than the rest.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by bobabooey02 on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:15PM (#14678487)
This is all well and good if you live in a wealthy family in the US. However, the global economy means nothing to me if my entire family is seeing a declining quality of life, I have to wait for years and go tens of thousands of dollars in debt to find a good job, and I live in fear of getting sick because I don't know how I'll afford it. That's why my priorities are for my family first, country second, and global "community" last.

If globalization is needed so badly to lift the world, we need to find a way to change it in a way that doesn't destabilize us in the process.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by resf on Saturday July 01, 2017 @04:04PM (#14678698)
> country second, and global "community" last

If healthcare in America has shown anything it's that Americans will proudly throw other Americans under the bus if it suits themselves.

I'd question whether the people you are prioritising care about you at all.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by chongli on Saturday July 01, 2017 @07:00PM (#14679575)
Americans are solidly opposed to the Republican party's agenda to gut health care. [0] Blaming Americans for their health care problems is like blaming Russians for Putin's largesse. It's just generally much harder for the masses to hold the few accountable than for the few to keep the masses in check.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/0...

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by uoaei on Sunday July 02, 2017 @03:43AM (#14681387)
This problem has existed long before the most recent iteration of healthcare "reform". People (real Americans!) have consistently voted in the representatives who are trying to undo a medical system that covers everyone because they are so enamored with the free market ideal and hate the idea of contributing to their country in the form of taxes.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by bobabooey02 on Saturday July 01, 2017 @05:48PM (#14679231)
I meant my country as a group of people, not our government. I don't care about my government, it has failed me, but my country is full of everyday people just trying to get by. Because we are of a same or similar culture, and because we live in closer proximity, it's only natural that I care about them more than people of other countries.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by geezerjay on Sunday July 02, 2017 @05:39AM (#14681714)
> I meant my country as a group of people, not our government.

Yet, you somehow focus on people living within artificial boundaries created by your government.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by geon on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:27PM (#14678535)
> and I live in fear of getting sick because I don't know how I'll afford it

Thats an unrelated issue that much of the rest of the world has solved a long time ago.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by bobabooey02 on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:30PM (#14678543)
It is related to the declining quality of life Americans are experiencing. If the economy was still incredibly unequal but quality of life was still going up, there wouldn't be nearly as much disdain for the rich as there is right now.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by ams6110 on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:42PM (#14678593)
From the article, it didn't sound like the Chinese are exactly generous with sick time. Admittedly it wasn't directly addressed other than by the general "Chinese workers work more hours" observation.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by deepsun on Saturday July 01, 2017 @05:47PM (#14679227)
> my family first, country second, and global "community" last.

Well, in many cases (but not all of course), people who put "country" first, get much better outcomes in the end. In fact, if you look at the poor half of the world -- it's where everybody mostly put themselves first.

So I argue that for the best life quality, there should be some balance between the two. Although figuring out the best balance is a very hard problem.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by nugget on Saturday July 01, 2017 @04:56PM (#14678982)
This is quite the catch-22. Domestic wealth inequality within the US has widened. Global wealth inequality has narrowed (dramatically). These two trends are very connected.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by chongli on Saturday July 01, 2017 @05:00PM (#14679011)
If you are a human being you should be happy humanity is better rather than selfishly worrying about the 4% of the world whose lives improved less than the rest.

Have you seen the elephant graph? [0] The reason people are upset is not because they are selfish, it's because the people above them are. The wealthiest of the wealthy 0.1% have profited immensely, the lower half of the world's population has been lifted out of poverty, and this has all come at the expense of the American blue collar worker. Factories have closed, the opioid epidemic has claimed tens of thousands of lives, and everybody is calling these suffering people selfish and lazy. It's no wonder they want to give everyone the middle finger and vote for Trump.

[0] http://voxeu.org/article/greatest-reshuffle-individual-incom...

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by kartan on Saturday July 01, 2017 @05:24PM (#14679123)
> The wealthiest of the wealthy 0.1% have profited immensely, the lower half of the world's population has been lifted out of poverty, and this has all come at the expense of the American blue collar worker.

Correlation doesn't mean causation. The blue collar workers of America have lost purchasing power. That is a fact. Chinese factory workers are better off, that's another one. But blue collar workers from other countries are better off than their American counterparts. How's that possible?

Health care, education, name it and you will see that don't work anymore. War again drugs, a complete disaster. But that's because the 0.1% stopped paying their fair amount of taxes and have converted the public services into their own private business in name of a "small government" while these same rules don't apply to them because they are "too big to fail". And has nothing, or little, to do with Chinese factory workers. Americans have voted for their own government to not help them anymore. It is not just poor people that suffer that lack of services but all the general population, except for the 0.1% that has money to pay for it all.

America have grown a lot in this past years, redistribution of wealth has failed. The 0.1% talks about not wanting a "class warfare" while fighting one.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by chongli on Saturday July 01, 2017 @05:34PM (#14679160)
Correlation doesn't mean causation.

Everything is linked in the economy. When I say that it's come at the expense of these workers, I don't mean somebody made the call to take money from them and give it to Chinese workers. I mean that in the grand game of musical chairs, they are the ones who have been left standing.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by prodmerc on Saturday July 01, 2017 @06:23PM (#14679389)
Trump, a billionaire who continues to make the wealthy wealthier and fuck over the poor. Anyone would've been a better choice, but hey, American propaganda is amazing (I'm serious, it's amazing, I'm glad most European countries don't have the same know how or have an extremely skeptical population).
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by chongli on Saturday July 01, 2017 @06:53PM (#14679521)
Well, the problem with the US political system is that everybody focuses on the presidential election and Congress ends up deeply entrenched due to extreme polarization and gerrymandering.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by calvano915 on Monday July 03, 2017 @12:31AM (#14685825)
Lack of diversity (two parties), extremely long campaign cycles with unlimited funding/advertising, and a large amount of uneducated populace are additional contributors (among a whole lot more).
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by nyolfen on Saturday July 01, 2017 @04:01PM (#14678685)
>If you are a human being you should be happy humanity is better rather than selfishly worrying about the 4% of the world whose lives improved less than the rest.

this is easy to say until it's your family's livelihood.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by Houshalter on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:05PM (#14678444)
The factory jobs were doomed anyway. Look at American steel production. We produce 80% of the steel we used to, but only employ 20% of the workers. And in a few years it will probably be a lot less than that because of improving automation technology. Does it really matter if it was a Chinese or a robot that took your job?

Economically it's superior. If a robot, or a Chinese factory, can produce goods cheaper, why not take advantage of it? Cheaper goods benefit everyone. The pie isn't finite. A more efficient economy means a bigger pie, not fewer slices.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by pliny on Saturday July 01, 2017 @06:12PM (#14679333)
>Americans[1] owning American[2] companies, and employing 100% American[3] labor

Americans[1] is not the same as Americans[3], there is some overlap (in the sense that Americans can own shares in US companies) but Americans[1] are mostly aristocrats, and whether those aristocrats live in New York or Shanghai shouldn't matter much to Americans[3].

Besides that, "most of the factories have shut down" is false, American manufacturing hasn't shrunk, it just employs less people and more capital. Most Americans ([1] and [3]) work in the service sector now. This is a change that is orthogonal to the nationality of factory owners, and is coming to China soon enough.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by scottLobster on Saturday July 01, 2017 @02:58PM (#14678411)
It is fair by the laws of Capitalism. China is roughly 3x the US population. If everything is distributed "fairly" by the invisible hand, they should end up with a larger piece of the economic pie. Whether we as Americans want that or should want that is another issue.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by ams6110 on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:44PM (#14678602)
Distributing "fairly" (as in equally) is not what capitalism does.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by scottLobster on Sunday July 02, 2017 @08:57PM (#14685206)
Which is why I'm using the invisible hand definition of "fair". The principle of the invisible hand, a cornerstone of modern capitalism, is that when everyone does what is in their own best interest things are distributed most fairly. Not saying I agree with it, but that's the moral theory.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by geezerjay on Sunday July 02, 2017 @05:43AM (#14681726)
Capitalism is all about fairness, because income depends on competition.

Ceteris paribus, China's size means it has a larger market, more competitors and therefore a larger market share.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by microcolonel on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:06PM (#14678453)
This is the problem with a welfare state: it makes industrial and border protection into an absolute necessity.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by frgtpsswrdlame on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:20PM (#14678511)
I don't see the connection between welfare and globalization. Explain?
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by microcolonel on Saturday July 01, 2017 @03:46PM (#14678612)
If you have a welfare state then you need borders and immigration control to keep people from exploiting it. If your government relies on labour inefficiency for revenue (as a welfare state does) then globalization will impoverish your government, driving up tax rates; and since this is unsustainable, you must inevitably protect national labour.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by CalRobert on Saturday July 01, 2017 @06:31PM (#14679431)
This is a really good point. It's the only argument I've heard against a strong social safety net that makes sense, and I really don't know a good counter. If you have government-provided health care, government-provided university, etc. then you are very likely to _have_ to restrict immigration since there will be people from places that do not offer those things who wish to avail of it. After all, you'd be foolish not to. If every sick American without health insurance could just pop over to Canada to get treated for free it would bankrupt Canada.

I am a supporter of single payer health care and vastly reduced tuition (or the elimination of the university's role in modern society, but that's another conversation), but I also like the idea of freedom to travel and open borders, and I've never found a way to square the two. I used to burn with envy when I read that such and such writer or artist moved to Paris from the US like it was no problem at all - how was it possible 100 years ago but not now? France offered fewer protections then, and had less to lose from letting people in.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by microcolonel on Saturday July 01, 2017 @09:53PM (#14680354)
I live in Canada, and here's how my last couple months with the healthcare system has gone (anecdote and first world problem alert):

About two months ago, it was the beginning of a weekend and there were no clinics open that would see me until the coming Monday. Something was rapidly deteriorating the skin on my hands. So I called an advice line, and the nurse on the line said that I should go to an emergency department. So I went to an emergency department, waited a few hours and was then seen by a doctor who could not diagnose me. She gave me a prescription for a week course of antibiotics and a topical cream, and said that a dermatology office would call me over the next week. I filled the prescription on my (thankfully exceptionally good) employer drug coverage. I followed the prescription regimen for the week and did not hear from the dermatology office, thankfully the cream was enough to apply according to the directions for up to a month and was seemingly keeping the deterioration of my hands at bay. I waited another two weeks for the dermatologist to call, and they did not. I called the hospital and was connected to a representative which did not speak or understand English very well and ended up being connected to the wrong department; then I called the hospital again and the lady at the hospital connected me with the dermatology office which was to receive my referral. After about 25 minutes I was able to deduce that the ER had not yet faxed the referral to the dermatology office, so I called the ER and thankfully still had my discharge form on hand to reference and help them track down the referral. I made sure they faxed the referral, and confirmed with the dermatology office which told me that I would be scheduled for about Tuesday last week (and would receive a call when it was confirmed). I still haven't heard from the dermatologists and I'll probably have to nag them again. I'm currently attempting to treat the condition by myself by reading random articles and blogs, and medical research on Baidu Wenku (thank god for high IQ) and doing okay, though it's not eliminated.

For critical/emergency care, Canada's system often works quite well (though sometimes fails horribly). If you have anything less than an emergency, or need dental work or drugs, you need your own insurance. That said, the fields which are still private in Canada (lasik, dental, optical) are reasonable to pay for by yourself if you're middle class. The fields which are covered by government insurance are illegal to pay for by yourself.

Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by frgtpsswrdlame on Saturday July 01, 2017 @08:20PM (#14679952)
I think it's only a good argument if, when you weigh your ability to travel like a 18th century writer and the ability of the poorest in society to avoid destitution, you find that they come out close. The best argument in favor of welfare continues to be the Rawlsian veil of ignorance and I'm pretty sure that behind that veil I would pick welfare programs over free travel.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by CalRobert on Monday July 03, 2017 @05:34AM (#14687012)
Just googled "Rawlsian veil of ignorance" - interesting reading. I hadn't heard the term before. Thanks for exposing me to it.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by wazoox on Saturday July 01, 2017 @05:04PM (#14679024)
Notice that the countries with the largest welfare states in the world (Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway) fare better by far in global indexes of happiness, human development, freedom, democracy, etc.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by prodmerc on Saturday July 01, 2017 @06:26PM (#14679404)
By welfare state you mean states with extreme income inequality? Because Europe does pretty well on welfare, because it taxes the rich more. And it has protectionism too, which helps.
Re:What Chinese bosses think of American workers by zionic on Saturday July 01, 2017 @02:54PM (#14678397)
It's not about what's better, but about systematically weakening western powers.