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Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by scblock on Thursday June 29, 2017 @10:45AM (#14663706)
The article isn't _wrong_ wrong, as the core of this security issue is right, but it's also not really right either. Wind Farm SCADA is generally well protected from internet attacks by design, but it is based on a fiber ring ethernet network that does indeed tend to treat internal nodes on the network as trusted. The article's notes on physical security make sense. And operators generally expect to be able to control the system from any machine, not just the central server. But it seems like much of the solution is better locks.

And I don't know who the author got this idea from: "The equipment is designed for lightness and efficiency, and is often fragile as a result.", but it's not accurate. It's designed for a balance of performance, robustness, and cost. Just because the machines are not designed for repeated emergency braking or doesn't make them fragile.

Bigger picture though, next time you're out and about take a good look at your surroundings. The U.S. is huge, and much of our grid infrastructure is remote. Forget the nuclear power plant example in the article. It wouldn't be stupendously difficult to take down a major transmission line or switchyard if you were determined. Much of the world operates because people generally leave well enough alone, for better or worse.

Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by jobu on Thursday June 29, 2017 @02:55PM (#14665941)
> It wouldn't be stupendously difficult to take down a major transmission line or switchyard if you were determined.

It's actually ridiculously easy to take out power for large areas with a rifle - https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2016/09/26/jla-tho...

As for attacking the wind turbines, I would be much more worried about a malicious actor turning off the brakes during high winds - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucceQ3vS3zs

Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by drcross on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:10AM (#14663905)
It's a bit like the people raving that the sky will fall when cars are all internet connected because they will vulnerable to hacking but completely ignoring that you could cause far more damage with a pallet of bricks being thrown off a motorway bridge, which generally doesn't ever happen.
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by GavinMcG on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:17AM (#14663948)
To be fair, throwing a pallet of bricks off a bridge wouldn't cause as much damage as causing 1% of an area's cars to crash, and it's a crime you actually have to be on site for.

People are quite reasonably more afraid of attack vectors that can affect huge numbers of people all at once, especially when the attacker could be anywhere in the world.

One obvious example of why that's reasonable is the recent ransomware – sure, you've always been able to easily extort $300 from someone, but now you can take money from a lot of people, and not get caught.

Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by digi_owl on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:01PM (#14664312)
Hacking, witchcraft, radioactivity. They all have in common that they are something you can't see, hear, or smell coming at you. Thus they are anxiety inducing...
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by fao_ on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:58PM (#14665420)
Radioactivity is probable, but not likely. Locally we were advised not to eat sheep for about a decade because of ~an incident~ to do with radioactive material.

Hacking is something that is getting more and more likely by the day. First, WannaCry infects the world over and knocks out a hospital system. What's next? Pacemakers going offline? Insulin pumps being hacked? Hell, cars can already be hacked from a distance, internet connected cars aren't raising a risk factor by much, aside from it lengthening the distance at which you can do the hack.

Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by mannykannot on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:41PM (#14664660)
In two of those cases, some level of anxiety is justifiable.
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by optimuspaul on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:34PM (#14665159)
Witchcraft and Radioactivity right?
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by marcosdumay on Thursday June 29, 2017 @02:08PM (#14665506)
Well, probably. Unless you are stupid enough to plug your car to the internet.
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by ceejayoz on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:14PM (#14664428)
I suspect if you could throw bricks off bridges remotely from Russia with a few keystrokes it'd be more common.
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by jfrankamp on Thursday June 29, 2017 @02:07PM (#14665499)
I'd take a pallet of bricks any day over the aftermath of a signing key and OTA package update compromise. I'm not worried about one car getting hacked, that's thinking too small.
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by dsfyu404ed on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:11PM (#14664394)
Do you remember that time a certain governor got in hot water for instructing that a "traffic study" which involved closing lanes be conducted on a particularly congested bridge.

Now imagine that on every bridge. It only takes one car to bottle up a lane.

Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by KGIII on Thursday June 29, 2017 @02:40PM (#14665796)
Interesting that you mention that. I modeled traffic. Give me a two way radio, a dozen cars, and time to monitor the traffic and I can probably bring most any large urban area's traffic throughput to a crawl.
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by jacquesm on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:31AM (#14664071)
> It wouldn't be stupendously difficult to take down a major transmission line or switchyard if you were determined.

All it takes is a length of chain or some graphite powder.

Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by Caveman_Coder on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:35PM (#14665170)
...a few Mylar balloons would do the trick and would definitely cause a major BES line to relay.
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by snowwindwaves on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:55AM (#14664266)
or a stick. but you have to be pretty brave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fGdZ-nu7zo
Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by dsfyu404ed on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:09PM (#14664377)
Protection systems (breakers and the like) trip via heat. The point is not to let so much current flow through your hardware that your hardware melts. Tree branches have high resistance. A short caused by a tree branch will not pass enough current to be a problem, just set the branch on fire.

SOP for fire departments responding to branches on lines that haven't brought the lines down is to call the utility then babysit the tree branch until it finishes burning.

Re:Researchers Found They Could Hack Wind Farms by snowwindwaves on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @06:54PM (#14748762)
modern protection on power lines do not use thermal Magnetic circuit breakers like the panel in your house.

The current passed by a tree branch depends both on the resistance of the branch and the voltage of the line. In the video I linked it was clearly enough of a short to ionize the air and cause an arc that would damage equipment quickly.