News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:30PM (#14573311)
So she didn't have any opportunity over the forty years prior to secure any of those documents?

Having to deal with something like this at the same time as being evicted and losing your mother is very sad, but that's not an excuse. It's a human interest story.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jacquesm on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:42PM (#14573376)
> Having to deal with something like this at the same time as being evicted and losing your mother is very sad, but that's not an excuse.

It's the perfect excuse. Once you have no registered address it is only a matter of time before you gain the accumulated 'benefits' that come with having no status at all. Essentially you become an un-person, and your life is just about forfeit. [1]

I take it that you have not experienced homelessness?

> It's a human interest story.

Yes, indeed. So take an interest in how these situations could be avoided rather than blaming the victims of the system, it should be fairly obvious that she's making a significant effort to regain her status as a documented citizen.

Also note how IDs tend to expire and that if you have no registered address you may not be able to apply for a new ID.

[1] http://forum.schizophrenia.com/t/homeless-person-has-a-life-...

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jubabuba on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:03PM (#14573461)
I was homeless for two years living out of my car. I used a mail forwarding service to maintain proof of residence and get id and stay registered somewhere.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by SwellJoe on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:22PM (#14573546)
Think back to when you signed up. What did you need? When I signed up, I had to fill out USPS form 1583, and show two forms of government identification (I used drivers license and passport; the list of accepted ID for this form is strict and non-obvious). My girlfriend couldn't be added to my account when she started traveling with me because she didn't have the second acceptable form of ID.

Now, imagine you also had to choose between your next meal and paying your mail forwarding service bill.

I live in an RV and travel mostly full-time, and I use a mail forwarding service, myself...but, even with that, it's sometimes a pain in the ass to deal with the government. And, it's also not all that cheap. I spent about $400 last year on mail forwarding for my personal account, and about the same for the business.

Look, I don't want to diminish your experience here. You've been there, to some degree, and I'm glad you got out of homelessness. But, just because you've shared some of the experiences of being homeless, it doesn't mean everyone who deals with this can follow the path you followed successfully.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jacquesm on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:26PM (#14573561)
In a nutshell: it is very hard to see privilege from the point of view of the privileged.

Polish proverb: I thought I was as low as I could get and then I heard knocking from below.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jacquesm on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:08PM (#14573484)
Smart of you to see ahead.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by maxerickson on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:34PM (#14573328)
Her Social Security card and birth certificate were among the things lost that day.

What reasons are there for the system to be structured such that obtaining an ID is difficult?

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:37PM (#14573342)
Probably to avoid identity theft.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by maxerickson on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:39PM (#14573364)
That is a reason for making the process rigorous.

It isn't a reason that it should be byzantine or difficult.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by yellowapple on Saturday June 17, 2017 @02:35AM (#14574602)
Unfortunately, "rigorous" and "byzantine" tend to go hand-in-hand.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by maxerickson on Saturday June 17, 2017 @10:14AM (#14575973)
How do you figure that?
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by justin66 on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:43PM (#14573634)
Identity theft as we know it is a relatively new crime, but these broken ID systems have existed rather longer.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by Mz on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:34PM (#14573329)
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by throwanem on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:56PM (#14573683)
Don't you think it is curious how the phrase "human interest" has come to mean "I don't care, and I don't see why anyone else should either"? I think it's curious.

What does it mean, to be disinterested in "human interest"?

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by SimbaOnSteroids on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:33PM (#14573325)
Mate ID's expire every 6 years. Expired ID's are not valid ID's.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:36PM (#14573339)
Social security cards and birth certificates do not expire.

Drivers licenses do expire, generally at 4-6 year time frames. Assuming you're still at the same address (which she was), most states allow one to renew it through the mail.

Checking a box, signing a card, and paying a nominal fee once every four years does not seem particularly onerous to me. Though if it were up to me the fee would be entirely eliminated.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by dragonwriter on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:06PM (#14573475)
> Drivers licenses do expire, generally at 4-6 year time frames. Assuming you're still at the same address (which she was), most states allow one to renew it through the mail.

...and paying a fee. Given that the article is about being poor, that's a non-trivial omission.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by maxerickson on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:39PM (#14573357)
Assuming you're still at the same address (which she was)

She was evicted from her previous address!

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jacquesm on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:55PM (#14573429)
And the older comment by that same user already acknowledges that.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:03PM (#14573463)
She didn't have ID when she was evicted which means she had plenty of time to get one. If she had a license/state ID and answered the expiration mailer she would have had one.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jacquesm on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:08PM (#14573481)
No, it means that she went from a situation in which she still had plenty of time to get one into a situation where she suddenly had no time at all anymore.

> If she had a license/state ID and answered the expiration mailer she would have had one.

That assumes she had one to begin with. I know lots of Americans that don't even have a passport or driving license.

Anyway, you're a cold one to stick to your theme of victim blaming, take into account that not everybody is able to navigate the bureaucracy as well as you or I and that there are other factors (for instance: analfabetism) that can land people in very difficult situations which even an expert would have a hard time to reverse.

And in case it wasn't clear to you yet: And it shouldn't be that way, if you're a legal citizen of a country and you lose all your identification due to theft, fire or some other reason and/or you are homeless then your government should go out of its way to help correct the situation. Because it is the decent thing to do.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by maxerickson on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:23PM (#14573547)
This is essentially where I was coming from. In the article, we meet her in crisis. That she maybe could have renewed a license prior to being evicted doesn't help her any.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Friday June 16, 2017 @10:39PM (#14573988)
Pointing out facts that would have prevented the situation isn't victim blaming. It's being truthful. The alternative is to accept that there is no personal responsibility (which I reject).

As to the process of reestablishing a new set of identity docs. It's clearly overly onerous and just like everything else in life, even more so when you're poor.

The decent thing to do for the government isn't just to make the edge case of the destitute easier. It's to make the general case easier. Getting an ID or renewing one should be so easy that there is no excuse.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jacquesm on Friday June 16, 2017 @10:47PM (#14574022)
I sincerely hope that you will never be in a position to realize just how your comment comes across to me. At a guess you're young, well educated and compared to the lady in the article filthy rich.

Your 'personal responsibility' works well for you given your background and status in life. But it's an easy argument to make when the results are not your problem. It does handily allow you to ignore the fate of those that are not as fortunate as you are, after all, if they had taken their responsibilities seriously then they would have nothing to complain about, case closed.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Saturday June 17, 2017 @02:10PM (#14576965)
> I sincerely hope that you will never be in a position to realize just how your comment comes across to me.

Am I to interpret that as a threat, a la "If you said that to my face and I'd punch you in yours!"?

If so, I'd expect more from what I presume to be a grown man.

> At a guess you're young, well educated and compared to the lady in the article filthy rich.

In the interests of preserving pseudo anonymity I won't confirm or deny any of those guesses.

The addition of "filthy" in the third piece of that does show more than a hint of inherent bias though. There's nothing virtuous or vile in being poor or rich, and discounting someone's opinions based on your presumptions of their economic status can only end badly.

> Your 'personal responsibility' works well for you given your background and status in life. But it's an easy argument to make when the results are not your problem. It does handily allow you to ignore the fate of those that are not as fortunate as you are, after all, if they had taken their responsibilities seriously then they would have nothing to complain about, case closed.

Not once did I say the situation is not unfortunate nor did I say things should be this difficult. I merely pointed out that it could also have been avoided and she had ample opportunity to do so.

If resources are to be dedicated to helping out someone in this situation (which they should!), then they should also be dedicated to preventing it in the first place. A key part of that is acknowledging the personal responsibility component. Otherwise you're stuck repeatedly curing situations that could have otherwise been prevented.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by jacquesm on Sunday June 18, 2017 @04:36PM (#14582779)
> Am I to interpret that as a threat, a la "If you said that to my face and I'd punch you in yours!"?

> If so, I'd expect more from what I presume to be a grown man.

Strawman ignored.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:04PM (#14573467)
But until she was evicted she was there and thus could have renewed her ID through the mail prior to this ordeal.
Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by pdkl95 on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:36PM (#14573607)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

The real world is full of a lot more variance than you seem to believe. It is possible to do everything possible within your power correctly and still fall victim to this kind of misfortune.

You're trying to force the world to fit your model. Instead, you need to fix your model to allow for non-100% ID coverage, because reality is always going to have complications, errors, mistakes, and unexpected interactions.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by koolba on Friday June 16, 2017 @10:54PM (#14574034)
If more people were guided towards having proper identification and said ID was easier to attain/renew, then you'd have less of this extreme edge case. Arguably that'd lead to more resources to dedicate to better helping someone in this situation. For every person that is robbed, evicted, or some other misfortune, I'm sure there are plenty more that face no such immediate calamity.

It's like medicine, a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Re:The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID by SimbaOnSteroids on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:41PM (#14573372)
Social security cards and birth certificates are not a form of photo ID. Furthermore renewing an ID costs $30 which is a roundabout way of instituting a poll tax.