Do you know what is the root cause of everything that is messy with todays life on earth?
I would say it is human nature.
So if you are sending human to mars...I say it is only a matter of time......
A city built from scratch in 2017 is going to look a lot different than a city that grew organically since the 1600s. Part of the appeal of Mars for me is the ability to build a planet knowing what we know now about city planning.
Have we stopped doing this since we have know better for a long time now?
> we built Boston's streets to fit horses and not cars, we built houses before public transit, etc.
You want to leave earth because streets are too crammed for cars? Seriously?
We're not perfect, but we've come a long ways from the excesses of the early Industrial Revolution in how we treat our environment. The developed world generally practices sustainable logging these days. A Martian colony would use clean energy, etc.
> You want to leave earth because streets are too crammed for cars? Seriously?
Congratulations on slaying the strawman. No, that's simply an minor example of how starting a planetary civilization with a fresh slate and modern knowledge could have benefits, despite "human nature".
I think greed, insecurity and shortsighted thinking are the root causes of most evils on earth. Does going to mars fix that?
Fights over land? We'd be opening up an entire Earth's worth of surface area.
Fights over resources? See above.
Fights over oil? None.
Fights over arbitrarily-drawn national boundaries drawn by collapsing colonialist empires? None.
It's remarkably pessimistic to argue that colonizing a new planet after two centuries of experience with industrialization, democracy, environmentalism, ex-colonialism, etc. under our belt wouldn't be at least slightly better than the situations we find ourselves in on Earth.
Do you know who will be still calling shots?
Politicians/Businessmen.
I am not even addressing the rest of your comment because that is quite frankly, very naive wishful thinking...You say that is pessimistic. But tell me, look around, do you see anything that make you feel even remotly optimistic?
Are you saying that the only worthwhile thing to do is come up with something that completely fixes one or more of those things?
If not then what are you trying to argue there?
Looking at your other comments in this thread, for someone who thinks short-sighted thinking is a big problem you seem to have strange issue with solutions that aren't directly addressing the here and now.
Not really
>what are you trying to argue there?
only how this mars thing won't solve anything in long term...
> who thinks short-sighted thinking is a big problem you seem to have strange issue with solutions that aren't directly addressing the here and now...
Of course. That you can see a mile ahead does not mean that you can ignore the pothole right in front of you.
> It'd be an entire planet built with modern understanding of city planning, environmentalism, governance, etc. Whether a Martian society winds up better is hard to say, but different seems pretty certain.
There's nothing stopping you from doing that in the inhospitable areas on Earth. If you bring the money and the plan, most governments will let you make a planned city.
This is precisely the arrogance I was talking about. Thinking it would be any different because of the extremely inhospitable conditions. If you don't see the arrogance here - I'm afraid there's nothing I can do to convince you of it. It's simply a difference of viewpoints.
He desires to be part of something grand and huge at the beginning of an era, then you insult and deride his grand dream by belittling it and telling him to make a planned city. It seems to me that he would rather be the lowliest janitor on Mars than a Mayor of planned city here and you cannot fathom how that could be, so you presume he is wrong or confused
He wants something that is impossible now. This is a common human goal. You fail to understand human nature then claim to have all the answers. Your points may all have been correct, but they were not the points that were needed.
I am not saying either of you are wrong or right, but you clearly brought plenty of arrogance and condescension.
Gee, probably the "If you'd just go camping you'd see your lifelong dream is bullshit" and "You're naïve and hubristic" bits.
You're fine rejecting my arguments for why his post is arrogant, but somehow yours about why my post is condescending are valid.
That's a toxic and arrogant way of arguing, so I'm not surprised you're projecting something I didn't say. Honestly I would have expected better from an HN audience, but techies are still people...
Also quite indicative of what would happen on Mars.
What was arrogant in OP's post? They said they personally yearn for a new frontier, and that Mars satisfies it for them.
> It's even more arrogant to believe that a Mars society will be any different or better than the society on Earth.
It'd be an entire planet built with modern understanding of city planning, environmentalism, governance, etc. Whether a Martian society winds up better is hard to say, but different seems pretty certain.