http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/harm-reduc...
"Why have Swedes stopped smoking? Because Sweden has adopted a harm-reduction strategy: it has largely replaced deadly cigarettes with a product that supplies users with both nicotine and tobacco yet doesn’t increase the odds of dying the way smoking does. That product is called "snus" (rhymes with goose).
A modern iteration of snuff, snus are little pouches of moist tobacco placed under the upper lip. Scandinavians have been ingesting nicotine via smokeless tobacco since the early 18th century, a habit that changed only during the Second World War, when cigarettes became popular. Smoking peaked in 1980 in Sweden at 34 per cent of the population. Since then, the growing awareness of the dangers of smoking has brought about a steady, year-over-year reduction in the smoking rate, just as it has in much of the western world."
This also describes how a lot of people are poor.
> This also describes how a lot of people are poor.
I suppose we should be cheered by your qualification "a lot of," since it seems to indicate that you at least have to acknowledge your growing awareness that some, if not the majority nor vast majority, of the poor are there for structural reasons, rather than shortsightedness.
What of those who are there for reasons other than shortsightedness? What of those for whom shortsightedness is a result of mental health issues? What of those who can see ahead, but see no bright future and are making rational choices in the face of that?
Fortunately, having qualified your remarks in the way you have, you have opened yourself up to a responsibility to think critically about those whom you have dismissed. I wish you the best in that.
I don't think I dismissed anyone. People make bad decisions on things they are in control of and it makes them more poor. The rich have more self control -- maybe not. Those with good self control tend to be better off -- definitely.
I'm all for the argument that smoking is a rational choice for someone without a lot of money. There is also the compelling argument that poor impulse control, being poor and smoking have a strong correlation. Maybe even as a common cause for poverty and smoking.
Having watched friends spend entire paychecks drinking, smoking, having unprotected sex (with the inevitable consequences), buying new camaros at blistering interest rates, fleetingly fashionable clothes -- I somehow think that my choice to eat mountains of rice and beans and live with roommates somehow had something to do with my relative success.
Sure, you can tell some people it's not their fault, but absolving everyone of responsibility for their choices is not helping them at all.
This thinking also reeks of the 'just world fallacy', in which the predicament of the poor is deemed to be a deserved consequence of their moral failings.
You should expand your horizons.
For an incredible overview of the benefits and harms of nicotine, see Gwen: https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
I guess it's one of those things that's so obvious no one actually says it. If you think about it, that benefit is never mentioned in debates about smoking and the appropriate government response. I know because I aggressively scour for such upsides, being the "hipster contrarian". Had I known about the pleasure and stimulation of smoking[3], you can bet I would bring it up every time!
Reminds me of "What Universal Human Experiences Are You Missing Without Realizing It?" [2]
Now you might ask, "Did it never seem strange to you that people would suck this disgusting tar into their lungs if it didn't at least feel good or something?"
Well, no. IME, people indulge in a lot of BS without obvious explanation. For example, people claim to like the taste of alcohol[ic drinks], and that is outright ridiculous -- or so I thought, but it was another case of [2]. Also, modern art.
My model of smokers was roughly that, they start doing it to look cool, and then get hooked, so that they have to smoke to fend off the pain of withdrawal. I didn't think the act could feel good itself!
Now that I think about it, people don't mention the good feeling of other drugs in debates about them either. For alcohol, I had a good explanation: those benefits are taboo, and people use the purported taste and refinement of their "fave bev" as "intellectual covering fire" for what they really want, the alcohol high.
In conclusion, the phenomenon in [2] is serious business!
[1] See, for example, the responses to this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14569775
[2] http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/03/17/what-universal-human-ex...
[3] Incidentally, I read Bostrom's Superintelligence, where he mentions writing the book while being powered by caffeine and nicotine, but I wrote that off (like most purported benefits of smoking) as psychosomatic.
Never got into smoking tobacco or weed, both just made me feel bad.
Their are also significant social and signaling roles.
Until we can have an honest conversation about this, and actually embrace and continuing objective science on it, we aren't going to find the honest and effective solution -- whatever that may be.
There's nothing luxurious about smelling bad and getting a wicked cough. Unless you're already addicted, nearly anything under $5 is more luxurious than a cigarette. I just ate an orange that cost 50¢ and it was more luxurious than any cigarette I've ever smoked.
I don't smoke cigarettes. I've probably smoked less than 100. I've smoked less than 40 cigars. I've spent maybe $100 on pipe tobacco total in my life, and most of it has gone stale. I've used a Hookah 5 times, just to round out my experience.
I'm not a smoker, but something about tobacco smoke just smells good to me, cigars and pipes mostly, but there are some good smelling brands of cigarettes.
>I've yet to find anything as enjoyable as a cigarette.
I've yet to find anything as a better trigger for happy, emotional memories of my departed grand mother as cigarettes that smell like her brand.
I don't know where I'm going with this, I guess I'm just saying there can be some appreciation of tobacco even if I don't think people should be smoking regularly at all, and that I possibly have very mixed up signals from 2nd hand exposure to nicotine as a child.
Completely subjective. I'm not sure the purpose of your post. Are you telling everyone what is more luxurious to them or just giving your singular opinion for yourself? Assuming the latter, it appears to add little to the discussion.
But regardless, wouldn't this be more appropriate as a reply to the parent, who made the initial claim that cigarettes are luxurious and didn't present any reasons for it?
It sounds like I miss smoking. Just to make it clear, it is enjoyable but it is horrible habit not much different from meth & other illegal drugs.
I quit because I was finally getting addicted and it started to control me. I would be thinking about my next cigarette break at work or pausing a movie to take a smoke break while my wife waited for me inside. I thought I would never get addicted but it happens slowly but surely.
The buzz, alone, is intense and very pleasurable (though probably less so for regular smokers). There's a reason cigarettes and coffee (or alcohol) go so well together.
Which is why I can never casually indulge... I like it too much.
Given $5 for a pack, that's double the price. Expenses add up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_relations_campaigns_of_...
More on how this guy shaped modern advertising in Century of Self https://vimeo.com/10245146
Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are by definition fewer and smaller than the wealthy. Cigarettes should appear undesirable by those than can easily afford superior enjoyable experiences. A pack of cigarettes is one of the most luxurious pleasures available if all you have is $5.
The poor aren't stupid. They are just making the best of poor hand they were dealt.