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Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by lenovouser on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:32AM (#14561335)
You can't be more wrong and uninformed. Russia-bashing seems to be a common and accepted theme now. He actually left Russia and his old company because the Russian government tried to censor it (VK) and he refused to do so. So basically he and Putin are in some kind of fight / disagreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Durov#Dismissal_from_VK

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by lambdadmitry on Thursday June 15, 2017 @01:57PM (#14562714)
He didn't leave Russia as in "exile", he did leave Russia as in "it's nice to leave somewhere else". Here [1] is a news report about him throwing out someone's phone for trying to make a photo of him in one of Saint-Petersburg's malls. Here [2] is an article from 2014 stating that he's visiting Telegram's office daily. By the way, Telegram's developers sit in the same building as VK's (also in [2]).

Durov seems very keen on supporting the myth of his "dissent" (to the point of outright lying) and very shy about the actual location of Telegram's developers and servers. Guess why

[1] https://lenta.ru/news/2017/03/20/durov/ (in Russian)

[2] https://tjournal.ru/p/durov-back-in-ussr (in Russian)

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by lenovouser on Saturday June 17, 2017 @09:00AM (#14575710)
I never stated it was for exile.

but you are right, article 2 talks about him being in Russia some time in early 2014. It also states that one of the reasons to be there was for selling a datacenter. He left shortly after that with the comment that he had no intentions to return to Russia arguing that the country is incompatible with doing internet business.

> Я уехал из России и не собираюсь возвращаться. К сожалению, в данный момент страна не совместима с ведением бизнеса в интернете

As for the office being in the same building as VK's - that is definitely weird. Even though I know that they also have offices in Berlin and London. Same goes for the fact that they also have multiple datacenters around the world for speed and security. There probably is also going to be a DC in Russia. I don't feel like my data is unsafe due to that.

And where did he lie about the location of developers or servers? I'd be very interested in seeing that. With that you could convince me that something fishy is going on.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by daxorid on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:11AM (#14561096)
> A Russian

Russophobia seems to be the only acceptable form of Xenophobia these days. And a wildly popular one, at that.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by madez on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:18AM (#14561173)
Is it bad to be afraid when there is reason to be?
Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by dmix on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:40AM (#14561396)
Of course not, but there should be more to it than merely seeing the word 'Russian'. I see this all the time now in left-leaning US papers (NYTimes, WaPo) that immediately imply association with something bad happening (he spoke with a Russian!). Much like the other popular generalization of 'Muslim' without qualification of type of Muslim where significant subsets have never been involved with terrorism (sufism vs wahhabism for example).

There are proponents who want to eliminate any type of generalization based on nationality/religion/etc which is also heavily flawed. Somewhere in between is the rational approach.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by mikeash on Thursday June 15, 2017 @01:08PM (#14562239)
The stuff in the papers is not taking "Russian" to mean "bad." It's looking at serious allegations of collusion with the Russian government, known interference in the 2016 election by the Russian government, statements by various administration officials that they had no contact with the Russian government, and then using meetings with high-level officials in the Russian government to imply something bad happening.

With this comment, the idea is that crypto software built in Russia could easily be compromised by the rather un-free Russian government, which seems pretty reasonable. Of course, the fact that this fellow no longer lives in Russia scuttles it, but that's just not being fully informed, not "xenophobia."

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by dmix on Thursday June 15, 2017 @04:02PM (#14563898)
> The stuff in the papers is not taking "Russian" to mean "bad." It's looking at serious allegations of collusion with the Russian government

That's a very generous assessment.

If only accusations of "speaking to a Russian" were qualified by the conversation actually involving something malicious or illegal before suggesting it was improper then I'd be in much more agreement.

The fact is besides Michael Flynn who was immediately fired once people with real power found out, there hasn't been anything that has come out that was bad on the administrations part. Even the accusations against Kushner seemed to be the handy work of Flynn who was at the only meeting he had with a Russian official.

Even the level of manipulation of the election results was seemingly marginal. If leaking Clinton/Podestas/DNC's emails was the limit of the interference (assuming they even leaked the Podesta emails to Wikileaks), despite most Americans on the left falsely believing it involved manipulating actual votes, then I really don't think it was as bad as people seem to think.

At most the worst that can be said is that Trump/RNC's emails weren't also leaked but everyone knows Trump doesn't use email so the damage would be limited to the RNC who Trump attacked on multiple occassions.

That would be a preferred scenario to Clinton/DNC emails never being leaked IMO.

So overall I don't see the total effect of Russian manipulation having a deciding factor. Especially considering the reason he won was in poorly educated industrial swing states where things like the latest Wikileaks Podesta email isn't as big news as a Trump ralley getting people excited over populist messaging.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by mikeash on Thursday June 15, 2017 @05:45PM (#14564659)
The allegations are serious enough for there to be multiple ongoing official investigations, and were enough to get Flynn fired, I don't see what's so generous about that.

Lying under oath to Congress is pretty bad, and when you lie about never meeting Russian officials, and then it turns out you met Russian officials, it's even worse.

Most of your comment is downplaying the consequences of Russian interference, which doesn't make any sense to me. I don't care if Russian interference resulted in +10% of the vote for Hillary, a foreign power screwing with our democracy is capital-B Bad, and if there was in fact coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, then it's capital-T Treason.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by izacus on Thursday June 15, 2017 @12:04PM (#14561623)
> Is it bad to be afraid when there is reason to be?

We also have a reason to connect "American company" with "NSA Spy"... and it's probably not really true for all US companies is it? :)

It's kind of ironic that Telegram is being attacked for being Russian by people coming from US of all places.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by madez on Thursday June 15, 2017 @04:38PM (#14564144)
Falling down a staircase does not always hurt you seriously, I'm still afraid of getting hurt when falling down a staircase. That's why I avoid as best as I can to fall down staircases.

I also avoid as best as I can giving any data to usa companies or buying privacy-sensitive products from them.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by TallGuyShort on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:49AM (#14561494)
If there's a reason to be afraid, give it. Nationality is a weak reason.
Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by nyolfen on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:46PM (#14563214)
there's a difference between 'afraid of' and 'don't trust closed-source crypto from'.
Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by k-mcgrady on Thursday June 15, 2017 @06:23PM (#14564976)
There should still be a reason at the end of that: don't trust closed-source crypto from [] because [].
Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by api on Thursday June 15, 2017 @12:37PM (#14561938)
Putinophobia is more accurate, and it's somewhat justifiable albeit probably a bit overblown.
Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by SXX on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:27AM (#14561275)
While I certainly not fan of custom-made crypto Telegram is also open source and they at least not pretend there some "end to end encryption" except you actually did key exchange on your own.

> Don't suppose this would be one of Putin's patriotic citizen artists spreading fake news do you?

You might be missed it, but Pavel lost business he built to Putin's oligarch friend.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:27AM (#14561281)
> Pavel lost business he built to Putin's oligarch friend

Source?

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by lenovouser on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:33AM (#14561338)
Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by nyolfen on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:52PM (#14563269)
the server is closed source
Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by SXX on Saturday June 17, 2017 @07:12PM (#14578137)
It doesnt matter if server code is proprietary if E2E keys never leave device. And open source server change nothing since you cant verify what code is running on actual production server anyway.

And messages that are not E2E encrypted are unsafe by default.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by _nx010_ on Thursday June 15, 2017 @12:40PM (#14561971)
Durov is the founder and ex-CEO of Russia's (and Europe's) largest social network site, Vkontakte. He is one of the few tech billionaires from Russia.

A few years ago, Kremlin tried getting their hands on Vkontakte (to be able to more easily monitor/censor), but Durov kept rebuffing them. Eventually, they intimidated him into selling his majority stake to one of their pet oligarchs. As you can imagine, Durov is pretty bitter about his company being taken away from him (and generally bitter about security services trying to mess with people's rights). After cashing out, he's moved to the EU and become a consistent critic of the Russian government.

Re:Telegram founder: US intelligence tried to bribe us to we... by sedeki on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:27AM (#14561279)
He is not known to be a patriotic Putin supporter, quite the opposite.