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Re:The Konami exodus by visarga on Thursday June 15, 2017 @01:33AM (#14558113)
If the courts function like police in Japan, then there is no hope. If police arrests you it's 99% sure they will get a conviction. It's a matter of saving face for them to convict everyone they arrest. You are judged by the cop, then rubber stamp sentenced by the judge.
Re:The Konami exodus by ekianjo on Thursday June 15, 2017 @06:54AM (#14559244)
I live in Japan and this comment rings very true about the police and the way they operate.
Re:The Konami exodus by glandium on Thursday June 15, 2017 @01:39AM (#14558138)
Arguably, the flip side is that you're not prosecuted unless they're near certain they can nail you.
Re:The Konami exodus by vanderZwan on Thursday June 15, 2017 @06:21AM (#14559139)
Being certain they can nail you is not at all the same as being certain that you're guilty. For example, they can nail you by getting a confession out of you, regardless of whether you did it:

> Finally, there is the prevalence of confessions. Ever notice how so many of Nick's clients have already confessed to crimes by the time he takes on their case? Known as "the king of evidence" by the Japanese system, confessions obtained in custody by prosecutors and police are the basis of the majority of convictions. Few rules govern what goes on in a Japanese interrogation room. Suspects are held for long periods before being charged or brought to trial, and the law offers them little protection. Critics argue that the system is open to abuse, and that false confessions are often extracted through coercion.

> Take the case of Toshikazu Sugaya. He matched the profile and blood type of a child murderer, but the police lacked any evidence. "They barged in and told me to sit down," recalls Sugaya. "Then they kept saying, 'You killed that kid, didn't you?' I said 'No, no,' but they didn't believe me." After a 13 hour interrogation without food, water, or a lawyer, Sugaya confessed. Armed with this confession, the prosecution successfully convicted him and he was sentenced to life in prison. It would be nearly 18 years before modern DNA evidence would completely exonerate him.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/is...

That's right, Phoenix Wright is probably a form of social criticism disguised as a game.

Re:The Konami exodus by mc32 on Thursday June 15, 2017 @01:47AM (#14558169)
I think that is of very little consolation for two reasons:

1. People don't get murdered, instead they die of "heart attacks," or they "accidentally fell down a stairwell" and the perp goes free.

2. They can keep you detained without representation for quite some time, in the meantime you are worn down physically and psychologically till you just want to make it "go away" so you sign a "confession" letter.

Re:The Konami exodus by namlem on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:24AM (#14558309)
They can keep you two weeks (as opposed to two days in the US) without filing charges. As long as you don't confess, they won't actually bring charges unless they have compelling evidence.
Re:The Konami exodus by glandium on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:27AM (#14558321)
I think it's 48 hours in Japan too.
Re:The Konami exodus by mc32 on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:29AM (#14558331)
It's 23 days according to[1] which in an unheated (or conversely uncooled) cell along with "confess even if you didn't do it, it will make it easier" spiel can be hard to withstand.

[1]http://japan.embassy.gov.au/tkyo/arrests.html

Re:The Konami exodus by glandium on Thursday June 15, 2017 @03:44AM (#14558591)
My bad, I misremembered, the base is actually 3 days (72 hours, that's the number I actually knew, but I mixed up with something else), and can be prolonged for 10 days by prosecution if a judge allows it, and can be prolonged for 10 more days after that, again validated by a judge. After that, the detainee needs to be either charged or released. Supposedly, the extensions are for cases where there is risk of destruction of evidence or disappearance. Wikipedia cites some (old, 1987) numbers that 85% of arrested detainees were kept for longer than 72 hours and more than a third were held without charge for longer than ten days.

Interestingly enough (having now done some minimal research), for terrorism cases, you can be detained up to 28 (!) days without a charge in the UK. https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/sites/default/files/...

Re:The Konami exodus by PhasmaFelis on Thursday June 15, 2017 @04:45AM (#14558785)
So they can only try to torture a confession out of you for 20 days? That's all right, then.
Re:The Konami exodus by joecool1029 on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:59AM (#14558444)
Call me skeptical regarding being held without charge in Japan. I know of a certain infamous French national that was held for months without charge there. [1]. The loophole I guess was adding a second charge when the first 'grace period' expired.

[1]http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34217495

Re:The Konami exodus by elmigranto on Thursday June 15, 2017 @05:20AM (#14558889)
> held without charge

> adding a second charge

Okay.

Re:The Konami exodus by ekianjo on Thursday June 15, 2017 @06:57AM (#14559260)
No its not.
Re:The Konami exodus by oelmekki on Thursday June 15, 2017 @05:50AM (#14559019)
Which are traits you find just as is in a dictature. Do you have evidences supporting this claim?
Re:The Konami exodus by ekianjo on Thursday June 15, 2017 @06:56AM (#14559254)
If a woman says you touched her in the train, the police can detain you as long as 10 days even if you did not do anything, and they will try as hell to make you admit you did it, and in any case your life is ruined since you will lose your job in the process. Hardly a good system to protect innocents from being convicted.
Re:The Konami exodus by lovemenot on Thursday June 15, 2017 @09:23AM (#14560113)
... and yet very few are actually convicted here, compared with almost any other developed country[1].

True, there's a lot of discretion in the Japanese prosecutorial system. Ditto USA. A big difference is that in Japan this discretion is mostly wielded judiciously.

Crime rate is also extremely low in Japan. I don't have evidence that the legal system is the reason, but I believe it's a significant contributing factor.

So where are all these righteously aggrieved innocents you worry about? They don't seem to show up in the stats.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera... tldr: {jp:47, uk:163, us:693}

Re:The Konami exodus by mcguire on Thursday June 15, 2017 @12:27PM (#14561856)
"Japan's police see no evil"

"Only 6.3% of the unnatural deaths in Aichi [prefecture] are investigated by a medical examiner, a minuscule rate even by nationwide standards in Japan, where an autopsy is performed in 11.2% of cases."

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9

Re:The Konami exodus by ekianjo on Thursday June 15, 2017 @10:43AM (#14560836)
You picked a particular bad timing to make your comment. It's all over the press in japan now: http://biz-journal.jp/2017/06/post_19335.html

There are numerous cases of false allegations, and recently one guy who was being chased by the police despite claiming his innocence (and all his close friend and co-workers said that was not the kind of guy to do this) just fell to his death while trying to escape this situation.

Re:The Konami exodus by visarga on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:44PM (#14566527)
> Crime rate is also extremely low in Japan. I don't have evidence that the legal system is the reason, but I believe it's a significant contributing factor.

My money is on the high degree of integration of the Japanese society. They are homogenous and everyone is well kept in place by their social network. That's why they don't become criminals as much, compared to US where crime correlates with disenfranchisement. The more a population feels the game is stacked against it, the more it will do crime, but an integrated society feels much more fair.

Re:The Konami exodus by petre on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:46AM (#14558393)
A judge can keep you jailed in the US indefinitely for contempt of the court. See the Martin Armstrong case.
Re:The Konami exodus by mc32 on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:50AM (#14558411)
Exceptions, exceptions. We're talking routine procedure in Japan --which I love btw., but you gotta face the reality of how the justice system works.
Re:The Konami exodus by BearGoesChirp on Thursday June 15, 2017 @01:08PM (#14562236)
In which case the routine in the US is to over charge them, hold them without bail (by ensuring bail is too high for them to be able to pay), and scare them into taking a plea deal. And isn't a plea deal a kind of confession?
Re:The Konami exodus by mc32 on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:55PM (#14563300)
Yeah, I'm sorry mate, you're absolutely right. There is no problem in Japan as it regards civil rights. It's my mistake. Obviously these problems only exist in the US so, while we are specifically talking about judicial issues in Japan, it's beside the point because there are no issues here.
Re:The Konami exodus by BearGoesChirp on Monday June 19, 2017 @12:46PM (#14588312)
My point was that both systems are similar in coercing a plea deal, but do so through different means. They are also similar it outcomes when you count in plea deals and not just court cases that got to trail. This was to point out that the systems like have a common flaw creating a common problem. This was said in response to other comments, not as a top level comment.

So, did you really interpret me as saying Japan didn't have a problem? Is there somewhere where I could clarify my stance (a bit too late to edit the post now, but for future reference)?

Re:The Konami exodus by bitwize on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:21AM (#14558292)
You seem to be confusing Japan with the United States.
Re:The Konami exodus by mc32 on Thursday June 15, 2017 @02:23AM (#14558305)
I'd suggest you read up about how the legal system works in Japan before you blurt out a facile quip: Confessions[1] and other unpleasantness[2].

[1]http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/10/japan-forc...

[2]https://gaijinass.com/2011/01/02/7-brutal-realities-regardin...

Re:The Konami exodus by nihonde on Thursday June 15, 2017 @03:39AM (#14558574)
Dubious sources, to say the least. This dumb conversation pops up every single time the Japanese criminal justice system comes up, and no one has a decent source--say for example, something in Japanese. First of all, the conviction rate in the US is 85+% last time I checked. Secondly, Japanese suspects confess. The theory is that they're coerced, but that requires one to accept a lot of speculation about the psychological impact of prolonged interrogations. Finally, the police in Japan are essentially invisible, so you need to be suspicious to even be on their radar. If you attract that kind of attention, you don't belong here, and they're going to let you know. It may not be what you want to hear, but that's just how it works here. It's the same everywhere else. In America, you can drive a BMW with New York plates from New Orleans to Los Angeles, and if you get pulled over, good luck to you.
Re:The Konami exodus by mchaver on Thursday June 15, 2017 @04:19AM (#14558705)
The conviction rates are available in English and Japanese provided by the Ministry of Justice.

Wikipedia in Japanese - Criminal Trial Judgements (判決確定数 - number of judicial decisions, 有罪 - guilty, 無罪 - not guilty)

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AE%E5...

At the bottom of the table it links all the data to

http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp

Looks pretty unofficial but that is Japan Ministry of Justice website and is linked by the more official looking one

http://www.moj.go.jp/housouken/houso_hakusho2.html

Ministry of Justice White Papers in English

http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/en/nendo_nfm.html

Judgement rates 2005-2014 in English

http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/en/64/nfm/n_64_2_2_3_1_0.html

Re:The Konami exodus by nihonde on Thursday June 15, 2017 @08:29AM (#14559750)
I'm not challenging the conviction rate. I'm challenging the accusations of coercion.
Re:The Konami exodus by krapp on Thursday June 15, 2017 @08:44AM (#14559828)
You're not challenging them with anything more than personal opinion. Which is fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion, although there are other people living in Japan in this thread who disagree with it.

However, as you're insisting that Japanese-only sources are necessary to consider the claim to be reliable, perhaps you can provide the necessary Japanese sources which contradict it?

Re:The Konami exodus by nihonde on Thursday June 15, 2017 @10:38AM (#14560781)
The burden of proof is on the accusers. I'm only asking for a single credible source from inside Japan, and in Japanese. Some anecdotes from other commenters is obviously inadequate. I've seen this trope about Japanese police strong-arming people into confessions in all the usual sources for misinformation about Japan on the internet--hence my skepticism. What if the Japanese criminal justice system is just really well run? That is an equally credible conclusion until proven wrong.
Re:The Konami exodus by krapp on Thursday June 15, 2017 @03:00PM (#14563363)
>The burden of proof is on the accusers.

This isn't a court of law, and you're not the defendant. There is no "burden of proof."

>I'm only asking for a single credible source from inside Japan, and in Japanese.

Sources from inside Japan and in Japanese have already been posted here. If you find those inadequate, what Japanese language news sources would you recommend? Perhaps you could search those and tell us what they have to report, if anything, on the matter.

>. What if the Japanese criminal justice system is just really well run? That is an equally credible conclusion until proven wrong.

In any other context, with any other country, the police being able to detain and interrogate suspects for weeks and a judicial system with a 99% conviction rate would be assumed to be evidence of unchecked state power. And, of course, "well run" and "systemically corrupt" are not diametrically opposed.

I understand from past comments that you're passionate about fighting against what you perceive as false cultural stereotypes about Japan, which is fine, but in this particular case the assumption being made is that Japan is no different than any other state in the ways that power and opportunity can breed corruption. It can't be "equally credible" to assume that Japan is somehow an exception to human nature.

Re:The Konami exodus by nihonde on Wednesday June 21, 2017 @08:35PM (#14609245)
You may as well ascribe Japan Rail's punctuality to nefarious behavior, since clearly no good actor could achieve such a high standard.
Re:The Konami exodus by krapp on Thursday June 22, 2017 @07:27AM (#14611429)
"Japan's trains run on time, therefore, Japan's justice system can't possibly be corrupt."

Did you really just sneak back into this thread after a week just to drop a snarky one-liner?

Re:The Konami exodus by stupidcar on Thursday June 15, 2017 @03:56AM (#14558634)
Do you consider Amnesty International to be a decent source?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2012/11/japan-end-abu...

Re:The Konami exodus by nihonde on Thursday June 15, 2017 @08:32AM (#14559766)
In a word: no. Japan has a different attitude toward civil rights than the west. Can anyone point to source from within Japan?
Re:The Konami exodus by jessaustin on Thursday June 15, 2017 @08:48AM (#14559868)
Japan has a different attitude toward civil rights than the west.

That's what this thread is about, isn't it?

Re:The Konami exodus by nihonde on Thursday June 15, 2017 @10:41AM (#14560809)
No. There are serious and so far unfounded allegations of coercion of suspects and witnesses in this thread. That's not what I meant by "a different attitude toward civil rights".
Re:The Konami exodus by jessaustin on Thursday June 15, 2017 @09:09PM (#14565853)
It almost seems that you're trying to have it both ways. Routinely conducting three weeks (or whatever period) of ceaseless interrogation is as bad for civil rights as it is for actually finding the truth in an investigation. Either tell us that such practices are fine because cultural differences, or tell us convincingly that they don't actually happen. Pick one.
Re:The Konami exodus by PhasmaFelis on Thursday June 15, 2017 @04:46AM (#14558790)
> First of all, the conviction rate in the US is 85+% last time I checked.

So Japan's acquittal rate is only 15 times lower than one of the most prison-happy countries in the world.

> Secondly, Japanese suspects confess. The theory is that they're coerced, but that requires one to accept a lot of speculation about the psychological impact of prolonged interrogations.

...Which speculation is that, exactly? Are you saying you don't believe that people will do almost anything to escape after being tormented for days or weeks? Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, please.

> you need to be suspicious to even be on their radar.

"The innocent have nothing to hide." Uh huh.

Re:The Konami exodus by brazzledazzle on Thursday June 15, 2017 @08:56AM (#14559918)
I get that you have a different culture but if someday in the future a false conviction happens to you I wonder if you'll feel the same.
Re:The Konami exodus by nihonde on Thursday June 15, 2017 @10:48AM (#14560888)
Police abuse happens everywhere. I said that somewhere above. I'm not as easily convinced that Japan's high conviction rate is due to coercion. I'm more afraid of kangaroo courts in places like Indonesia or the Middle East or small-town America than I am of being squeezed for something I didn't do in Japan. I'm 100% confident that no one can coerce a false confession from me in 23 days without physical torture. 100 percent.
Re:The Konami exodus by brazzledazzle on Friday June 16, 2017 @02:22PM (#14571447)
If they were inclined to, they could easily deprive you of enough water not to kill you but make you very cooperative. I'm not saying they would do it, I know very little about Japan and how it works there. I just know the tactic isn't unheard of for interrogations in the US and some other countries.
Re:The Konami exodus by lovemenot on Thursday June 15, 2017 @10:08AM (#14560497)
Of course not. But this is purely an emotional argument.

A hypothetical system that is in theory wide open to abuse, but where, in practice abuse rarely happens, should be compared favourably with another which has strong theoretic abuse controls, yet in practice is abused systematically. At least until such time as systematic violation is common in the former and the latter lives up to its ideals.

Re:The Konami exodus by brazzledazzle on Friday June 16, 2017 @02:40PM (#14571606)
That's a great point, thanks. I think perhaps this triggers an instinctive fear of danger that you can't size up because it's (purportedly) hidden away. Even though one is ostensibly better than the other in a practical sense, the fear of being randomly victimized by those in power with no ability to right it both socially and legally, even after the fact, is pretty chilling.

If you assume for a moment that the allegations are true, that powerlessness is exemplified in this thread–you have someone from Japan basically saying that if you're even under suspicion you probably did something to deserve it. Coming from somewhere like the US that scares me more even if that fear is irrational in a practical sense.

Re:The Konami exodus by PhasmaFelis on Thursday June 15, 2017 @04:49AM (#14558803)
God knows the US has problems, but it baffles me why people assume we're the only source of evil in the whole world.
Re:The Konami exodus by refurb on Thursday June 15, 2017 @08:45AM (#14559840)
Talk poppy syndrome?

I've spent time living both in the US and outside of it. Yes, the US has unique problems it's dealing with, but jeeze so does every other country. I'm always shocked when people paint the US as some sort of hellhole. I just assume these are people without first hand experience.

Re:The Konami exodus by lovemenot on Thursday June 15, 2017 @10:38AM (#14560773)
Tall poppy syndrome?

>> I've spent time living both in the US and outside of it

Me too. I invite you to spend one day reading and watching global stories and deliberately replacing the words "USA" (implicit or explicit) with "Australia" or any other country of your choice. You'll come to realise the extent of USA's cultural importance when you are reading so much about "Australia". You'll begin to wonder why we seem to care so much. Love or loathe USA, we are fixated on this one country. I believe this is all to the advantage of most Americans now, but that advantage is declining.

Re:The Konami exodus by Qwertious on Friday June 16, 2017 @09:45AM (#14568870)
People care about the USA so much because it has massive amounts of pressure that it exerts on everyone else. Point in case: the Iraq War.
Re:The Konami exodus by DanBC on Thursday June 15, 2017 @10:43AM (#14560834)
Those other countries tend not to bomb anyone else to give them the gift of democracy.

If a country sets itself up as a bastion of freedom they're going to be scrutinised when they fail to meet the standards they set for themselves.

Re:The Konami exodus by PhasmaFelis on Thursday June 15, 2017 @11:35PM (#14566485)
Absolutely, and I have no problem with legitimate criticism of the US. What bugged me was Bitwize (and Nihonde) apparently refusing to believe that any country but the US could abuse crime suspects. We can't use America's sins to cover for other nations'.
Re:The Konami exodus by tajen on Thursday June 15, 2017 @03:51AM (#14558616)
The interrogation period is 23 days. The conviction rate after interrogation is 99.98%. It's not a made-up number: Only 15 people walked away free in 2015 after interrogation. Assuming that the police arrests the correct persons with 99.98% accuracy would be immensely harmful for democracy – Please lookup for testimonies if those 2 figures didn't already make you doubt about Japan's police system.
Re:The Konami exodus by glandium on Thursday June 15, 2017 @05:29AM (#14558923)
Do you have sources for that? http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/en/64/nfm/n_64_2_2_2_2_0.html#tabl... has some data about the number of cases that are prosecuted and that's way lower than 99.98%, but that's not limited to people interrogated.

But indeed, if you look at the data for cases that go to court, the conviction rate is high. http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/en/64/nfm/n_64_2_2_3_1_0.html

But that was my point in GP.

Re:The Konami exodus by jpatokal on Thursday June 15, 2017 @07:22AM (#14559337)
That's the conviction rate after going to trial. Prosecutors can and do drop charges if they don't think they have enough evidence to convict, and the police are also reluctant to record crimes they don't think they can solve.
Re:The Konami exodus by mcguire on Thursday June 15, 2017 @12:55PM (#14562116)
Couple a strangely high conviction rate with a weirdly low crime rate, and you have reason to think something is off about the country's justice system.
Re:The Konami exodus by paulmd on Thursday June 15, 2017 @03:09PM (#14563458)
I would assume that such figures studiously ignore criminal syndicates like the Yakuza.

With apologies to Terry Pratchett: Japan's philosophy is that if you're going to have crime, at least it should be organized crime.

My fiance did a high-school exchange in Japan and mentioned that people with tattoos weren't welcome at onsen because that usually means Yakuza in Japan, and businesses want to steer clear of all of that. If businesses are making rules like that, it's pretty clearly a non-trivial issue.

Re:The Konami exodus by mcguire on Thursday June 15, 2017 @05:44PM (#14564651)
That's probably true, too. The other comment I posted had a link describing a sumo wrestler who was found with cuts and injuries reflecting a serious beating. The cause of death was "heart disease". That may or may not be related to previous cases I've heard of in the sumo world, which seems to have links to organized crime.