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Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by rayiner on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:29AM (#14550978)
I'm as salty about baby boomers as the next guy, but it's a bit ironic that millennials don't realize that they'll be screwing the next generation over even harder. We are in the position we are in now largely because baby boomers didn't have enough kids to support them in their retirement.[1] But millennials are having even fewer kids. When millennials in western countries can no longer work, who will take care of them? Can they count on an endless supply of young immigrants raised and educated on foreign taxpayers' dimes?

[1] In the past, people had children so someone would be around to take care of them in retirement. Financialization of that process decouples the specific children from the specific retirees, but does not otherwise change the basic dynamic that there has to be a working generation to provide for the retired generation. You can't eat money in your 401k.

Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by bluthru on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @03:05AM (#14551123)
>When millennials in western countries can no longer work, who will take care of them?

What does this question even mean? There isn't a 1:1 ratio of nursing aids to nursing home residents.

>But millennials are having even fewer kids.

Thanks to the world the Baby Boomers helped create. Real wages have flatlined, careers being sold as more meaningful than families, and horrible maternity and paternity laws. Meanwhile, the wealth that a responsible couple generates is subsidizing the unemployed person who is on their fourth child. We basically live in a society that has inverted natural selection. That includes flooding the first world with people from the third world and pretending that we're all interchangeable and that the social conflicts created by multiculturalism aren't real.

Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by metalliqaz on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @01:31PM (#14554365)
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that both of us live in the "first world", as you say. Where is the flood of third world people? I have never seen this "flood" in my 35 years wandering around the US.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by bluthru on Thursday June 15, 2017 @08:51PM (#14565762)
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by nopinsight on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:35AM (#14551000)
By the time millennials retire, around 2045 and later, robots and AI are likely advanced to the level that they could take care of the old and produce most necessities of life. The labor needs of that future world would likely look quite different from what most of us envision now.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by rayiner on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:40AM (#14551021)
2045 is about as far into the future as the first episode of "Seinfeld" is in the past. Unless a black swan event happens in AI development, the world will look pretty similar to how it does today.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by nopinsight on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @03:12AM (#14551159)
As a counter anecdote, one can also say that just 10 years ago, no computer systems came close to human at facial recognition or scene recognition for still images. Today's AI systems can caption events in videos. [1]

Researchers are also working on higher-level cognition tasks. We do not know for certain if there will be breakthroughs but there are many diverse tasks that seem within reach in the next 10-20 years.

What are human capabilities that you believe AI/Robots in 2045 will still likely be lacking?

[1] Dense-Captioning Events in Videos

"...We introduce the task of dense-captioning events, which involves both detecting and describing events in a video. We propose a new model that is able to identify all events in a single pass of the video while simultaneously describing the detected events with natural language.... " https://arxiv.org/abs/1705.00754

Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by potatolicious on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @05:11AM (#14551499)
There's a difference between technical capability in a laboratory/R&D context, and widespread adoption of a technology.

In 2045 we may very well have highly capable robots, but IMO there's not a chance they will be widespread to the point originally posited: that they will take care of (most of) the old, and produce (most of the) commodities.

One consistent theme when it comes to futurism - whether it's the Jules Verne vintage or the Popular Mechanics vintage is the consistent under-estimation of how much it costs to change the physical world.

Software will continue to be the largest source of change between now and 2045, because software is cheap and generally does not seek major edits to the physical world. Robots and other physical manifestations of futurism are very different.

The futurists of the past predicted domed cities, flying cars, orbital space resorts, mile-high towers connected by floating trains, robotic servants, and the such - none of it has come to pass, and the present world is dramatically less futuristic-looking than originally predicted, because major edits to the physical world is crazy expensive.

Software has been largely an end-run around this expense, by being (nearly) free to deploy to the masses. Deploying billions of household robots, or something similar, is far less likely to actually happen.

IMO a more realistic way to predict the future of 2045 is to imagine how much technological advancement you can cram into a world that still almost entirely looks like the present day. The physical world changes at a comparatively glacial pace.

Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by trelltron on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @08:08AM (#14552108)
While I broadly agree that things don't usually change how we expect, I do think the near future could invert that somewhat.

If we look at you examples of failed predictions: > domed cities, flying cars, orbital space resorts, mile-high towers connected by floating trains, robotic servants, and the such we notice that the real reason none of these exist is because they are all essentially impossible to achieve with our current technology.

However, robotic servants are partially already here. We can verbally ask a device to play a certain song or order us some loo roll, and it works. We have autonomous cars that can, reasonably safely, drive us wherever we want to go. Elon Musk's new factory is, reportedly, almost entirely automated. And as most of this progress is recent, it seems likely that it will continue to advance for a while.

I will agree that there is significant friction against changes in society, which slow down adoption of new tech, but consider that robots in the context we are discussing are not a consumer good, they are a replacement for employees. So perhaps the most relevant question that will drive or stall adoption is: Is a robot more cost-effective than a human.

I also think watching the extent to which self-driving cars are adopted by delivery/freight/taxi companies, and the fallout from that, will be a fascinating (maybe terrifying) glimpse into that future.

Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by Scea91 on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @11:08AM (#14553277)
How is what you are saying different from someone saying 50 years ago that they can build both planes and cars, so the flying car is surely achievable in a few years?

The problem is that extrapolation is fundamentally hard.

Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by ucho on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @04:22AM (#14551365)
As a counter counter anecdote, scientists where estimating that perfecting automatic text translation will take another 10-15 years... in ~1960. I guess hoping that future technology will solve all out problems is similar to expecting next generation to pay our debts.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by taway_1212 on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @05:58AM (#14551639)
> As a counter anecdote, one can also say that just 10 years ago, no computer systems came close to human at facial recognition or scene recognition for still images. Today's AI systems can caption events in videos. [1]

These "basic" computer vision tasks seem so trivial compared to the actual AI that the original AI researchers famously assigned solving them to a grad student over summer.

Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by tmoertel on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @09:00AM (#14552372)
On the other hand, the problems in most "Seinfeld" episodes have been rendered trivially solvable by a technological development that has occurred since the show originally aired: the ubiquitous smartphone.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by e12e on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @10:11AM (#14552832)
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by ThrustVectoring on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:54AM (#14551082)
Its difficult to have conditions that have Millennials both supporting aging Boomers and raising their own children. Not without lowering standards of living and care for one of the three groups.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by flukus on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:35AM (#14550999)
Not really, the biggest problem with the baby boomers aging was the "boom" part, there were a disproportionate number of people in that generation. Gen Y may be having less kids, but there will be less of them to support in retirement and the next generation might even get cheaper housing as the population shrinks.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by usuallybaffled on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:41AM (#14551025)
I believe with will need way less people than in the past due to automation and robots.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by ck425 on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @09:58AM (#14552714)
We need to accept that the retirement model simple isn't sustainable. Either you live on less that your means while young and save for retirement yourself, or you work till you die.
Re:The Old Are Eating the Young by rayiner on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @10:05AM (#14552774)
Unless you're saving canned food that doesn't solve anything.