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Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:04PM (#14547040)
> As a “hard fork” looms, which looks set to split Bitcoin into two separate currencies that will have to fight for custody of the Bitcoin moniker

This already happened to eth when the creators hard forked the chain in an effort to roll back operations of an eth application that was used in a way that the creators did not anticipate. If this didn't kill ethereum why would it be a problem for bitcoin? Fortunately for bitcoin, there isn't a highly influential and transparently self-interested creator lording over the project.

> Bitcoin transactions can take anywhere from tens of minutes to several hours, depending on how busy the network is.

An unsolved growth problem for the reining incumbent that remains unsolved by ethereum. Transactions take a long time because decentralized proof of work verification is slow. A lot of people will say "proof of stake is coming!!!" but it's essentially vaporware and all signs point to the conclusion that it will remain that way for the foreseeable future. Yeah, people are working on it, like all vaporware.

> Ethereum is actually a platform for new kinds of decentralized (often financial) applications (dApps) that run on a peer-to-peer network of computers

Except this isn't actually happening in practice. I am yet to see any "new kinds of decentralized applications", just toy applications that have no practical purpose besides internet roulette

> TL;DR: Bitcoin’s dominance is slipping because its utility is limited and weakening versus other more recently developed, less politicized cryptocurrencies.

Bitcoin's dominance is not slipping because it's utility was marginal to begin with and eth certainly doesn't offer much in the way of compelling improvements over bitcoin.

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by drcode on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:21PM (#14547231)
> it's essentially vaporware and all signs point to the conclusion that it will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

Here's the ethereum proof of stake code that will go live on ethereum sometime this year: https://github.com/ethereum/research/blob/master/casper4/sim...

This is the actual production code (though of course still in draft form, under review)

> just toy applications that have no practical purpose

The UN uses an ethereum app to send aid to Syrian refugees via vouchers: http://www.coindesk.com/united-nations-sends-aid-to-10000-sy...

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:50PM (#14547481)
> Here's the ethereum proof of stake code that will go live on ethereum sometime this year

Until it goes live, it's vaporware. The issue isn't "can proof of stake code be written" the question is "will eth continue to function safely and correctly using a proof of stake system"? We'll talk when it hits production.

> The UN uses an ethereum app to send aid to Syrian refugees via vouchers:

The details are not really clear from the article. How does this work? Why was this possible with eth but not with bitcoin or dogecoin or any other cryptotoken? How do displaced Syrian refugees accept, manage, and spend digital currency? I am highly skeptical of this without lots of details.

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by drcode on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:58PM (#14547543)
> Until it goes live, it's vaporware.

That's a ridiculous definition. So nobody can advertise that they plan to add a novel feature to a piece of software, even if the code already exists in draft form, without being labeled a vaporware peddler?

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:07PM (#14547635)
The standards are higher for the cryptocurrency sphere which is notorious for extreme hyperbole, tons of hype, and poor results to match it, especially when you're talking about code that is supposed to solve the single most difficult problem of blockchain currencies.
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by drcode on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:22PM (#14547788)
I agree with you insofar that cryptocurrency protocols involve economic game theoretic challenges that are impossible to fully validate without running in full production. It's 100% fair to remain skeptical of POS until we see a successful launch of the system... but that's different than saying something is "vaporware".
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by daveguy on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:12PM (#14547678)
I think root_axis draws an important distinction between normal software and crypto currency software. Until it is live it hasn't been proven whether it's resilient or requires a hard fork.

That could be worse than vaporware. There probably needs to be a term for touting a feature that may turn out to be like the DAO.

SchrodingerWare?

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by 52-6F-62 on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:17PM (#14550461)
There are few technical details available publicly yet. I've been looking for more reliable sources.

Here's the World Food Programme referencing the system with no technical details: https://www.wfp.org/news/news-release/wfp-introduces-innovat...

Here's a Coindesk article (who are obviously very pro-crypto, but more pro-Bitcoin and less pro-Ethereum) from today on some vague details: http://www.coindesk.com/united-nations-sends-aid-to-10000-sy...

I'm still trying to find out how this all worked. There have been articles saying this was their plan in various sources for over a month, though. I'd like to know as well. It's at least clear there was a program involving digital vouchers.

Found one --- here's Wired Germany outlining that it was in fact Ethereum the UN/WFP used with IrisScan to provide a benefit payment method for refugees. They are still scant on specific technical details, but if you are really starved, then it sounds like you should contact Parity.

https://www.wired.de/collection/tech/blockchain-fluechtlinge...

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by Artemis2 on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:23AM (#14550964)
I can't find any source apart from this (which is NOT cited on Coindesk): https://www.wfp.org/news/news-release/blockchain-against-hun..., it does not say the same thing.
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by hackinthebochs on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:20PM (#14547218)
> If this didn't kill ethereum why would it be a problem for bitcoin?

The situations simply aren't analogous. At the time ethereum was still seen as speculative and didn't have another project nipping at its heals for dominance in the turing complete contracts space. But now, ethereum is nipping at the heels of bitcoin to be the dominant blockchain currency. If bitcoin falters and money starts flowing out of bitcoin and into ethereum, there is no reason to be confident that it'll retain dominance.

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by zefman on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:53PM (#14547501)
> Ethereum is actually a platform for new kinds of decentralized (often financial) applications (dApps) that run on a peer-to-peer network of computers

There are a few very interesting things in the pipeline. Here are a few: https://golem.network/ https://status.im/ https://gnosis.pm/ https://basicattentiontoken.org/ https://augur.net/

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:05PM (#14547614)
> in the pipeline

And that's the crux of it. As I said, I'm yet to see anything that's actually useful. There are a lot of claims about all the amazing things that will be possible at some point in the future, but besides internet gambling, I've yet to see a demonstration or even a coherent explanation of something useful that these systems are capable of that isn't already possible and less complex with existing systems. (Just so you know, I was already aware of status and augur, but I examined your other links as well before responding)

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by problems on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:37PM (#14547894)
Indeed, most of the things created on the Ethereum platform are just shittier versions of things that exist - while decentralization can be a huge boon to some things it needs to combat its inherent complexity increase for users. Ethereum does not lend itself well to that, as such almost everyone is there for a get-rich-quick scheme, not for the higher applications on its platform.

Wait for the hype to run out, then look at it again when it's not at a peak value.

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by Kiro on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:40PM (#14547916)
You could have said the same thing about many things that in the end resulted in a technological paradigm shift. Ethereum is only a couple of years old.
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:44PM (#14547956)
This is a pointless observation because you could have also said the same thing about all the useless crap that never amounted to anything.
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by Kiro on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:48PM (#14547996)
Your observation is equally pointless. You're the one using it as an argument though.
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @04:22PM (#14548280)
My observation is not pointless, it is literally the point of the argument, namely that crypto projects blast out tons of hype but never pan out into anything useful. Your rebuttal was "well, other things that people said were overhyped turned out to be paradigm shifts", but what I'm telling you is that your rebuttal does not tell us anything meaningful because it is equally true of all the failures as well.
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by aaron-lebo on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:07PM (#14547085)
Indeed, it's interesting that existing applications are never cited, it's always future potential. Sounds like a great way to kick the can down the road.

Invest now! Someday the network is gonna be really useful. You'll see!

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by 52-6F-62 on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:16PM (#14547171)
Skepticism in this realm is certainly warranted and undoubtedly healthy.

However, I think I should share this because the above two comments seem to have not caught wind of it. A number of enterprise-level organizations both within and without this org are working on projects and experiments both utilizing the public blockchain and private chains using the technology.

I think there is some validity to the project that is simply not yet mainstream yet.

https://entethalliance.org/members/

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by lossolo on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:42PM (#14547940)
> just toy applications that have no practical purpose

What? Look at all the ICOs:

https://mona.co/

and this:

http://www.coindesk.com/150-million-tim-draper-backed-bancor...

and here more:

https://www.coingecko.com/ico?locale=en

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:58PM (#14548072)
> https://mona.co

Sound great, like most cryptocurrency marketing hype... where is the product? How do I get my hands on it? Let me guess "coming soon".

> http://www.coindesk.com/150-million-tim-draper-backed-bancor...

Ok, so a bunch of people spent their money on eth internet tokens... what exactly is the practical use case here?

> https://www.coingecko.com/ico?locale=en

So you've linked to a huge list of projects begging for donations. If you don't mind, can you pick just one project out of that list that actually has a product or service I can use today and explain to me why this wasn't already possible without cryptocurrencies?

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by lossolo on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @06:34PM (#14549248)
> Ok, so a bunch of people spent their money on eth internet tokens... what exactly is the practical use case here?

Use case here is that there is smart contract that guarantees you that you are the owner of those specific tokens.

How you want to solve that with bitcoin?

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by tscs37 on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:28PM (#14547291)
On a technical note; the transaction(s) in question have not been rolled back, rather, the faulty contract was deprived of it's funds and the money was put into a new contract that distributed the funds to the original investors.

It's not a rollback since the original contract is still on chain, just without money. If you fuel it with some money you can use it.

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by mquander on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:40PM (#14547403)
Except this isn't actually happening in practice. I am yet to see any "new kinds of decentralized applications", just toy applications that have no practical purpose besides internet roulette

So, uh, how about all those ERC20 ICOs? I admit that you may wish to classify them as "Internet roulette."

Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by root_axis on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:53PM (#14547502)
What do they actually do? I understand the purported significance of ERC20, but it is not clear why these tokens are actually useful. Literally anyone can mint them... in fact that's the point.
Re:Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin by mquander on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:33PM (#14554883)
Sure, the idea is that now it's easy to mint your own currency to do stuff with. That wasn't so easy before! So Kik is minting a currency to serve as Weird Premium Kik Points, and GameCredits is minting a currency that you get by playing Candy Crush or whatever, and BAT is minting a currency that represents attention you paid to ads, and Augur is minting a currency that makes an incentive structure for reporting prediction market results, and so on.

This is plausibly better than if they had just rolled it by hand outside of Ethereum for a few reasons, e.g.

- You automatically have a way for users to trade real value for your currency via ETH. (This is probably easier for devs than setting up Paypal or Stripe integration, but harder today for users.)

- The currencies are something you have that's more tangible and auditable than an entry in some company's bespoke centralized database. Everyone can see it and believe in it.

- Users can easily send the currency to each other by default without all the transactions having to go through you. (I don't actually know whether this is a pro or a con for many use cases.)

- It's trivial to make interoperable software that accepts or holds or sends these currencies, like exchanges and wallets.

- The above facts probably mean that there is something like an open liquid market for your currency, if anyone cares about it. That means people can perform mutually beneficial trades! Mutually beneficial trades are mutually beneficial.

As to whether it's useful to have a bunch of currencies for different things, I think so? I mean, there already are a ton of things like this in software which behave as de facto currencies -- free-to-play games and MMOs are a good example -- and those seem like they would be well-suited to be ERC20-style tokens. And as someone who believes in incentive structures, I'm excited about the prospect of quantifying more things which are currently vagaries ("attention", "reputation", "compute time") into currencies with a market. Augur's design is a good example of this.