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Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by idbehold on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @10:50AM (#14545135)
It seems like this behavior should also be reported to the credit card companies. In the case of Steam, it seems like what you should do is have the credit card company charge back ALL the purchases you made if they ban your account.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by timsayshey on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:13AM (#14545362)
This is exactly why when a new game comes out, I check to see if it is available on GOG.com before checking Steam. Thanks to GOG's DRM-Free policy, you can download and store the game installer. Not all digital distribution is bad.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by hellbanner on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:22AM (#14545432)
Try http://itch.io , too (Disclaimer: my company has uploaded games here). It's incredibly developer friendly and they host game jams constantly http://itch.io/jams
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by benologist on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @01:35PM (#14546703)
GOG's fake-refund policy of "work with support to prove the game opens" is illegal in Australia and probably most countries with consumer protection laws. They're no better at respecting their customers than Valve, they just misrepresent it better.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by Thimothy on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @08:44AM (#14552277)
These days you can finish most modern AAA games in the time countries with decent costumer laws let you refund a product. Not to say that with GoG DRM-free policy, you could buy the game, download it, and ask for a refund in no-time.

I find GoGs policy a nice middle ground to Steam, on one side, and ruining their business as you suggest, on the other.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by benologist on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @10:10AM (#14552821)
The assumption that anyone seeking a refund is trying to screw the company is how criminal policies at companies like Steam and GOG evolve. It's actually easy to identify the bad people while maintaining a legal and ethical policy for customers - two distinct groups.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by Semaphor on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @12:19PM (#14545928)
FWIW, while it's not as convenient as at Gog, you can still play all your steam games where the publisher/Dev didn't add the drm. Most should then work by copying the installed files
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:14AM (#14545372)
> It seems like this behavior should also be reported to the credit card companies

Hit them where it hurts: state regulators. If you're in New York, for example, complain to the Department of Financial Services (DFS) [1]. They're hard hitting and know what they're doing. (I think California's analog is the California Department of Business Oversight (DBO), though it isn't, to my recollection, as intimidating as DFS.)

[1] http://www.dfs.ny.gov

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by creepydata on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @12:46PM (#14546191)
There's also the CPFB for those in the US https://www.consumerfinance.gov/
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by owenversteeg on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @04:02PM (#14548104)
That's great, thanks. I don't live in New York though, and I'd bet most people reading this don't. I wonder what the equivalent local regulators are.

Someone should make a list of all local regulatory agencies by location. List all places hat deal with average joes as well as how likely they are to respond to you and how often they win against companies.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by Shivetya on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:03AM (#14545276)
Steam has a litany of disclaimers to block refunds. Even games dropped by developers don't matter to Steam. I had a few hours registered to a game I could never get to work beyond a few turns but since I "played" it I was not entitled to a refund.

I really dislike digital distribution of games and software on this point. While some Steam games I can run offline I am not sure if all of them can be. Plus how do I reinstall?

It is a sad state of affairs when being a buyer on ebay is safer than buying from Steam

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by Silhouette on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:35AM (#14545559)
It always surprises me that I've never seen anyone take real legal action against a platform like Steam over this sort of policy. You can put almost anything you want in your terms of service, but in most places if it's blatantly one-sided and unreasonable there's a chance that courts will strike it down, particularly in areas with relatively strong consumer protection laws like Europe. Something like blocking access to previous purchases because of an unrelated dispute seems about as one-sided and unreasonable as you could get; it's essentially no better than the kind of anticompetitive practices that are explicitly illegal in various other contexts.

I was also under the impression that the card networks frowned upon trying to prevent cardholders from exercising any chargeback right they have with their card. Then again, I have business interests that accept payments via these card networks and I've never even seen the full terms that we supposedly agreed to on the merchant side, so I don't know how I'd check even though we're presumably subject to the same rules, whatever they are.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by pmiller2 on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:45PM (#14547447)
There's no incentive for a private party to sue them because the losses are so small that even a class action isn't worth pursuing. Any legal action would have to be government-initiated. That's unlikely in the US due to the current political climate, and EU action would do nothing for us across the pond, and vice versa.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by Silhouette on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @09:19PM (#14550081)
In the US that might be true, but a small claims action if they locked someone out of a large number of previously purchased games wouldn't be out of the question somewhere like the UK.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by teh_klev on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:19AM (#14545410)
> I had a few hours registered to a game I could never get to work beyond a few turns but since I "played" it I was not entitled to a refund.

Cough, ahem, No Man's Sky...

According to Steam I'd played around 40 hours, but in reality most likely <10 hours active and stupidly left the game idling a couple of nights which racked up the hours.

I tried to get a refund from Steam and was refused, I then tried a charge back from PayPal and Steam stepped in and more or less told me that if I continue down this road I'll be locked out of all my games.

A few lessons learned:

1. Don't pre-purchase games

2. Wait a couple of weeks for real gamer reviews

3. Avoid Steam/digital distributions for higher value games.

This has certainly soured me from buying anything costing more than a few quid on Steam.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by slantyyz on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:32AM (#14545530)
>> 1. Don't pre-purchase games

>> 2. Wait a couple of weeks for real gamer reviews

I know it's hard to do if everyone you know's playing the latest hotness, but if you can wait a few months, you can usually get the game heavily discounted in one of Steam's (or Humble, Green Man or other Steam key sellers) quarterly sales.

I used to buy my games on release date at or near full price, but these days I try very hard to wait as long as I can for them to get heavily discounted. When you pay much less than full price, the sting is lessened if you chalk up too many hours to get a refund.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by teh_klev on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @09:23AM (#14552484)
> but if you can wait a few months & > playing the latest hotness

To be honest NMS is the only game I've paid for prior to the release date, and even then I only paid for it a week beforehand.

I'm not a huge gamer (with the exception of dipping into Eve Online no and then). But NMS was hugely attractive to me, less so from the gamer/press hype, but from all the things Sean had talked about and demo'd.

That'll learn me.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by Delameko on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:46PM (#14547979)
Yeah, this is the same with me. The last game I bought at full price was watch_dogs, and I felt ripped off that most of the season pass content was the same copy and paste missions as the rest of the game, with only one proper DLC.

Last month I bought Dishonored 2 for £10 and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided for £8, roughly six months after release (when they were £60).

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by josefresco on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @12:50PM (#14546233)
According to Steam I'd played around 40 hours, but in reality most likely <10 hours active and stupidly left the game idling a couple of nights which racked up the hours.

THIS. I posted my own comment, but I also suffered from the same crash/hang refund issue. The game was so unplayable I gave up, and shut down my Steam link. Unbeknownst to me, it was still running and therefore Steam refused my refund, and didn't reply to my follow up.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by josefresco on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @12:47PM (#14546199)
My Steam refund story: Bought a shitty game, asked for a refund but because said shitty game crashed and "ran" overnight, they denied my refund because I "played" for 25 hours straight. It was $5 so I let it go, but I received no response to my follow up regarding the reason why there was time logged. Bad support.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by striking on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:22AM (#14545434)
You can run Steam games in "Offline mode" if the network goes down and you were most recently logged into that computer, for up to (iirc?) 30 days.

And reinstalling the games is easy. You can install a copy on any computer you log into. You just can't play more than one at a time.

If you played a game for more than a couple hours, are you really entitled to a refund? And when you mention "Even games dropped by developers don't matter to Steam" do you mean early access games?

Caveat emptor. Digital distribution won't magically prevent you from buying bad games. Look at reviews, try the game for an hour or two, and ask for a refund if you don't like it.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by jamra on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:50AM (#14545695)
I plaid a game a while back that was stuck in the tutorial level. The game company said that it was a known bug and that they would provide a fix for it. The fix never came. Steam tried to claim this same thing with me. Yes I was entitled to a refund despite having tried to change settings and despite being in the main menu of the game.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by user5994461 on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @01:41PM (#14546778)
Steam has an automated refund policy nowadays. You just need to ask a refund for your new purchase and you will get the refund the next day.

Tried it twice, works wonders.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by eli on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:00AM (#14545252)
I don't think that's a good idea, but anyway there are time limits. You can chargeback something more than a few months old.
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by sigstoat on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @12:24PM (#14545982)
i assume you meant to say "you can't chargeback..." since you're pointing out there are time limits.

in my experience the time limits are related to delivery of the service. for instance, you pay with credit card for a service happening 9 months in the future. if the appointed day arrives, and the service is not performed, there won't be a problem getting a charge back even though the actual charge was 9 months old.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by aoeusnth1 on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @01:16PM (#14554216)
And in the case of steam, the "time of service" is at all points in the future?
Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by sigstoat on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @05:10PM (#14556146)
i'd certainly make that argument to my credit card company if steam cut me off completely.

i don't think it's crazy for a software company to want to claim that i'm leasing software from them after a one-time payment, but if that's the case, i also feel like i forever have grounds for the return of my money if they ever break the lease.

Re:Money can be stolen from an Uber account by mnm1 on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @03:04PM (#14547604)
With Amex, at least, you can only do chargebacks for purchases in the last six months. Probably similar for others. Just something to be aware of. Even if you have indisputable proof of theft or fraud or whatever.