News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @05:36PM (#1453267)
I disagree with a lot of this. I used to hate exercise until I was taught two major misconceptions: 1) cardio helps you lose weight, and 2) high rep/low weight = muscle tone, and low weight/high rep = big muscles. These are patently false.

Cardio is NOT for losing weight. In fact in many cases it actually is very difficult to burn fat while doing lots of cardio because it trains your body to burn the fact more efficiently. This is why you'll see people spend so much time at the gym and get no results. The OP is quite correct that without a serious change in diet coupled with the cardio you will NOT lose weight. Which is exactly why you shouldn't do cardio if you want to lose weight, you may get a small drop in the beginning, but ultimately you will return to a baseline. Pushups etc. are great for warmups, but ultimately these will have very diminishing returns as well (the "100 pushup" style of training is laughable).

If you want to burn fat and lose weight you really need to lift weights, and you need to lift heavy weights. The idea that you can "tone" your muscles with small weights is just ludicrously wrong. You wont turn into a mega-hulk, trust me.

If you want to increase your stamina, your lung capacity and your heart health cardio is absolutely what you should be doing. But also understand that this comes at a cost of diminishing your muscle gains (thus slowing down how quickly you burn your fat).

TLDR: the best way to lose weight is to lift heavy weights in low reps (as heavy as forces you below 10 reps) with moderately short breaks between exercises. Cardio will be an uphill battle to lose weight.

And the best part is you actually get to eat MORE if you are seriously lifting.

Edit: if you want to disagree with me and downvote, at least post a response. I'd love to hear why you think I'm wrong.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by psyklic on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @08:48PM (#1453736)
I generally agree with you, but your post seems misplaced -- the article isn't about losing weight or building muscle. Instead, it's simply about getting out of your chair and maintaining a minimal level of fitness. It is geared toward sedentary people who aren't motivated to exercise, not people who want to lose weight!
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by Alex3917 on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:08PM (#1453365)
"In fact in many cases it actually is very difficult to burn fat while doing lots of cardio because it trains your body to burn the fact more efficiently."

If you are working out at a fixed percentage of AT, then why would the total amount of fat burned decrease as your AT increases?

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:57PM (#1453509)
Sorry, what does AT mean?

In order to burn the same amount of fat you will constantly have to be doing more exercise, maybe that clarifies?

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by sahglie on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @11:44PM (#1454052)
The way you phrase this makes it sound like you have to work harder to burn more fat as you get more fit. This is not true. Say your cardio workout consists of running at N% of your max heart rate for 1 hr, covering a distance D. The more fit you become, the greater distance you will cover running at the same N% of your max heart rate. Since the number of calories you burn is proportional to the distance you run (work done), as you get fitter you will burn more calories without needing to exert additional effort. Cardio is a good way to lose weight, esp in combination w/strength training.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by Alex3917 on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @07:06PM (#1453522)
Anaerobic threshold. It's the point where your body produces more lactate than it can burn, so excess lactate accumulates. (When I say point, this is generally expressed as both a heart rate and also a speed, but you usually pace your workouts based on HR.)
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @07:18PM (#1453548)
working out at a fixed % of AT will make sure you cross over into anaerobic everytime. That is true. but at the same time, you will have to do more and more work to get to that point, and I think people underestimate how much that is (and thus get frustrated with cardio and blame exercise in general, poor genetics etc.). Purely as a time measurement, the amount invested just doesn't make sense vs. lifting. why not just cut to the chase and start with anaerobic exercise, since it looks like we agree that that's what burns the fat?

edit: I should also reiterate, as many have below, you ALSO get the cardio benefit from lifting.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by Alex3917 on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @09:00PM (#1453763)
"working out at a fixed % of AT will make sure you cross over into anaerobic everytime. That is true."

No, that's completely false. It doesn't even make sense.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @09:30PM (#1453828)
If that fixed % breaks your AT it does. Which is what happens if you lift heavy weights with a decent speed right?

If not please explain, I'm a bit new to the concept.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by Alex3917 on Wednesday June 23, 2010 @12:16PM (#1455329)
Let's say your anaerobic threshold is 190bpm, and you are working out at 155bpm. That means you can never go over your AT by definition, since you are always changing your pace to keep your HR fixed at 155. Essentially the longer you work out the slower you go, so that your heart rate never increases.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by jedc on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @07:03PM (#1453517)
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by gcv on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:07PM (#1453355)
the "100 pushup" style of training is laughable

Why do you say that? Do you find one hundred push-ups easy?

Edit: Or are you specifically referring to their usefulness for losing weight?

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:53PM (#1453501)
It's slightly useful for stamina training, but it's a very inefficient way to train.

But yes, mostly referring to weight loss.

I can't do 100 pushups right now, but probably about 50-60 (as is obvious I train for strength not stamina). In about a week I could get it up to 100 pretty easily, and I would not be lifting any more weight and I would not be losing any more weight. So beyond being able to do more pushups nothing would really change.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @09:21PM (#1453810)
Sorry would edit if I could but I can't so replying. I'm actually kinda into this stuff and have gotten pretty good results doing what im doing. i have done 100 pushups as well, i was doing at least 150 a day doing 1 set of 100 one set of 50, i am in far better shape now. so if you do disagree please at least post why because I really do wanna know what you think. Always looking to train more efficiently...
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by gcv on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @11:02PM (#1453993)
Now that you clarified your point, I don't disagree. Push-ups have serious limitations with regard to strength training, of course, since it's really difficult to increase resistance. (I've toyed with the idea of rigging a special backpack and putting weight plates in it.)

For a beginning trainee, especially a sedentary person trying to get fit, I think that a hundred push-up program is a safe and easy way to start. I certainly don't think such a program is "laughable"; it'll produce noticeable good results in a fairly short period of time. Those gains will hopefully encourage the trainee to begin strength training with free weights.

In general, I personally prefer to be able to do 100 push-ups (one set), 25 pull-ups (one set), 100 sit-ups (one set), and then run 5 miles — resting no more than a couple of minutes in between — and I'm willing to sacrifice some strength gains for it. I'm still working on hitting that goal. :)

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @11:44PM (#1454051)
hmm i had the opposite haha! when i used to do a ton of pushups i just got more discouraged because i didn't get real gains. when i finally went with a few friends to the gym and they showed me how i got way more into it and had pretty real results after the 2nd or 3rd trip, which is why i say "laughable" etc., of course all fitness advice should go with the disclaimer that YMMV and "whatever keeps you going back" etc.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by zackattack on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:37PM (#1453457)
I completely disagree. Doing as few as 30 pushups/day has resulted in dramatic increases in strength in addition to weight loss and NOTICEABLE tricep formation [i.e. other people commented on it]. This coming from a guy who worked out (off and on, but mostly on) from the end of senior year to senior year of college.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:51PM (#1453494)
Noticeable tricep formation means nothing. Muscle size != muscle strength by any measure. It's also not hard to make your muscles pop for short periods of time. If you're doing it every day I wouldn't be shocked if the "gains" you were seeing were actually just daily swelling.

30 pushups vs. doing absolutely nothing, yes you will see small results. You will also cap out in < 3 weeks at what you can gain.

Not to be a dick but please do define dramatic.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by krakensden on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @08:48PM (#1453735)
Muscles are for show as well as function sir ;)
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by yesimahuman on Wednesday June 23, 2010 @01:05PM (#1455482)
You would get even more noticeable size increase by doing push downs with a cable or skull crushers.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by jpdbaugh on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:07PM (#1453354)
Couldn't agree more with this. I have been having tremendous results from doing the Bill Star 5x5 program (bench, squat, dead lift, incline, barbell rows) in a shot amount of time.

I would like to incorporate some cardio into to this for heart health though. I was thinking of running on Tuesdays and Thursdays in between my lifting days. Do you think this is a good idea?

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by lukenathan on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:16PM (#1453400)
No. There's no reason to introduce long slow distance running (granted, you didn't specify the type of running, but this is usually what people mean) into your training. It will interfere with your recovery from lifting, and really won't do a lot for your overall health.

Don't you feel your heart pounding after a heavy set of five squats? I'd say that's adequate for "heart health."

If you're worried about staying "fit," you might consider adding in one conditioning day of pushing a sled or running sprints. 5x5 is a lot of volume, though, so I'd be careful with adding in anything extra.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by lukenathan on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:39PM (#1453467)
I'm not going to take the bait on the "squatting is bad for your knees" claim. There's plenty of literature and information out there that debunks this claim; maybe someone else wants to explain. . .

And sure, if you want to play sports on the weekend that's great. See how you feel. If it starts to affect your weight training, then you will have to evaluate it. If you don't care how fast you will make progress in your lifts, and you'd like to play some sports, there's obviously nothing wrong with that. Just understand that a program like Bill Starr's 5x5 is really a program for intermediate lifters, perhaps not intended for people who want to do other activities as well.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by jpdbaugh on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:28PM (#1453436)
So, it would be better to play a sport of some sort on the weekend? Like some soccer or roller hockey? I am not a huge fan of running.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by prototype56 on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:30PM (#1453439)
I have heard from atleast 2 sports orthos that squatting is bad for you knees. I guess it shouldn't matter when you are doing it the right way with adequate recovery period but nevertheless its easy to screw up your joints . One even said that squatting is a very unnatural moment for human body and is best to avoid it .
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by bedris on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @07:28PM (#1453572)
One even said that squatting is a very unnatural moment for human body and is best to avoid it

Then babies need to fire their personal trainers:

http://personaltrainerbath.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/BA...

http://www.malvernstrength.com/.a/6a00e553cfae8a88340120a4cb...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X0yQkonFwHQ/SeINrYNoy9I/AAAAAAAAAU...

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by Alex3917 on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @09:20PM (#1453808)
For what type of squats, and what does bad for your knees mean? Risk of acute injury? Risk of longterm damage? Are we talking half squats or full squats? Sets of 6 reps with heavy weight, or sets of 100 reps with light weight? With feet flat on the floor, or on an incline (with heels slightly higher than feet)? Does the damage occur at any weight, or at some threshold? What about jumpies?

Saying squats are bad for your knees doesn't really mean anything, and I doubt your orthos would actually know offhand. If you have a question, go look up the relevant studies from the academic literature, and then ask if you don't understand something.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by gcv on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @11:08PM (#1453995)
You should read Starting Strength, by Rippetoe and Kilgore. It goes into a lot of detail on correct form in performing barbell squats, and it also goes into detail about what causes knee injuries. Short version: a full deep squat, with the top of the thigh parallel to the floor, is fine. Partial and incorrect squats are bad.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @07:28PM (#1453573)
I think you're getting into the zone of training philosophy at this point (ie: no right answer, YMMV etc). Absolutely squats by definition are not bad for you, but it's very easy to hurt your knees (and your back) doing them if you aren't careful.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by stoney on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @08:49PM (#1453739)
Whether or not it's a good idea to incorporate some kind of cardio depends on what you want to achieve - fat loss? strength gains? larger muscles? better performance on the soccer field? aesthetic improvement? all round fitness?

Being fit means different things to different people. Personally if I can't run 10k in under 50 minutes I don't think I'm fit enough (but that's not my only threshold for fitness), but other people will have their own idea of what they consider to be fit.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by jpdbaugh on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:20PM (#1453411)
What I would really like to find is some pick up soccer or roller hockey on the weekends then. I really don't particularly feel like I need to run and I would rather play a sport to condition.

I did a lot of 5x5 stuff back in high school when I played football so I have some experience. That was 4 years ago though and I must say that I was real sore the first week of this program.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by prototype56 on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:15PM (#1453393)
I personally think it would interfere with your recovery and make you prone to injuries . Just follow the program, Dont overdo it .
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by blackguardx on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:19PM (#1453407)
I don't think there is anything wrong with some light jogging. Try not to push yourself too hard, but ease into things.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by alanh on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @05:40PM (#1453280)
If you read the article, he explicitly says exercise is best for reasons wholly apart from weight loss (like longevity and health).
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by wdewind on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @05:49PM (#1453304)
Sure, but he sets up a completely false dichotomy right in the beginning by comparing cardio exercises to weight loss results. He also opens the article with:

"Don't kid yourself into thinking that exercise, by itself, will make you lose weight. Consider the following activities, and the number of calories an average person burns per hour in each."

It's very targeted at people aiming to lose weight.

Weight loss is very related to overall health, and in many cases very necessary to be healthier (especially us Americans). He also is EXTREMELY focused on saving time, and then proceeds to propose the LEAST time efficient way to get in shape.

No need to be nasty, I read the article.

Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by starkfist on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @11:55PM (#1454064)
I used to play football (gridiron) where you will find many counterexamples to the 'lift weights to lose fat' meme. Cardio is great for losing weight and most bodybuilders use it during their cutting phase. The reason why cardio doesn't work for many people is because they aren't doing enough of it at the right intensity.
Re:What, Me Exercise?: The Hacker Exercise Regime by subwindow on Tuesday June 22, 2010 @06:07PM (#1453356)
You're right, but calisthenics are great for their simplicity. You don't need any equipment, and you can do them anywhere.

People lifting five pound weights piss me off, though. You've already gone through the trouble of getting equipment- why not use some equipment that will actually help you?